New Record For The Sale Of A Gnl Listed Counterfeit.

Spent the day with dealers at the FUN Show. Got about 25-30% of the way through. No one is offering squat for foreign coins this year.

I have a few real coins all encapsulated that I wanted to sell. I did the same and sold everything I brought day 1.

Like last year, I averaged sales from the Heritage and Stacks archives of sales for the past few years and deducted 20% as a fair mark-up allowance. This year there were no takers not even close. Plenty of excuses however.

Here are the better coins I brought.

1870 Japan Yen (Type I) First year of issue a key date. It is MS 63 NGC with iridescent blue toning beginning to form. Only one interested party but no offers to buy. I checked the coin with Skip (the IGC grader that writes for Coin News) and he said the grade was low - definitely at least MS 64. My number was $ 1,028.

1777 Mexico 8 Escudo MS 55 PCGS accurate grade per Skip yet zero interest. My number was $ 3,400.

I also have 3 Book and Hand 8 Escudos VF-EF all NGC NONE NET GRADED but dealers all said they were cleaned or problem coins trying to get them at MELT. Melt for coins all dated 1863 or earlier? I asked $ 950 each.

I think I will just consign them with Stack's or Heritage and get closer to whatever market is.

Forget about being savvy about counterfeits - almost no one - except a few dealers I have known for years has any grasp on that subject.

Maybe I was on the twilight zone rows of the FUN show because at least half of the dealers I interacted with today fall in jerseyben's category of the IGNORANT and most of the rest were SMA's.

I will try again tomorrow and Saturday to see if I can locate at least a few people interested in something beyond the almighty dollar sign and making 150% profit on every deal.

And BTW - not one single contemporary counterfeit - not even a common duplicate. Plenty of what I call Class 4 altered, cleaned, repaired, doctored and otherwise JUNK and many genuine coins (nearly all priced one grade above what I believe to be correct).

Wish me luck - this year's show has all the "FUN" of a stick-up.

WOW! What a fun exchange of stereotypes! I only wanted to say that someone can be an expert, and NOT be an elitist. I submit as my evidence, swamperbob who spends countless hours on this forum helping others with the wisdom he has gathered in his lifetime. That makes him a numismatist, and a friend to the hobby.

To those who would label a segment of coin collectors "Simple-Minded Accumulators", I think Dr. Freud might think them a tad ANAL.

Sorry to interrupt this love fest. Please feel free to continue. The entertainment value is priceless! Jack

Thanks for the opportunity. My response will be quite brief. Everything you know about this fictitious person, is this: He spends a lot of money on high-end coins. It's what you don't know about him that is screaming loudly in your comments. You have NOTHING upon which to base a stereotypical label such as "Simple-Minded Accumulator." Simple-minded? Just exactly How dare you!

Is our friend a war vet, a blood donor, a patriot, a school bus driver? My point is - You don't KNOW him. You're making assumptions based upon Google searches. You make many valid points. You lose credibility when you stoop to branding others with titles of your own creation.

It's difficult for me to understand that you can't see the folly of your deductions. I know you don't mean to be, well, uh, mean. You want to be scholarly and I hear it in your post. Can you NOT see the demeaning nature of calling a brother/sister of the hobby, of the "Coin Community FAMILY" a simple-minded accumulator? What's the profit in such categorization if not simply to elevate your own self-worth, as being something more than "they" are.

I don't think you are trying to be demeaning. I think you are out of touch with the thousands of us who collect because it gives us pleasure. Your labels may be helpful in some aspect of YOUR research. They are ill-conceived, unkind, and unfair. I am sorry to rant, and didn't intend to. I am grateful that you asked me to elaborate. It shows me that you are much more than what I gathered from your previous posts. Jack

PS - You make my point about being out of touch when you say you don't understand why I'm laughing.

colonialjohn - Indeed. Thanks for your insight and wisdom. If I have gotten off the track, I most humbly apologize. I won't add anymore, other than to say after thinking more about your question, perhaps "Investor" might be a more apt title for our mythical example. It's all just my opinion, and we both know that everyone has at least one of those. I have enjoyed conversing with you and applaud your willingness to hear my thoughts. Jack

Better news from Tampa over the past two days - at least for myself.

I now own a new GNL variety - first new one of the year (first since November, 2015). Can't take pictures here but it is an 1821 Durango made from engraved dies. By 1821 (in fact by late 1820) Durango had once again resumed using punches to make its dies.

I saw the coin in the inventory of a dealer who is a friend of many years and I may add a collector of counterfeit coins himself so I was just a bit surprised to see it. So I asked to see it. He was sure it was real. However, once I pointed out that this coin was made with engraved dies (the punched elements were different - no two letter As were the same shape - the castles had different outlines and portals, the lions looked like different species of animals, etc ... you get the picture) he knew EXACTLY what I meant. It is a nice early counterfeit but being a very gracious gentleman we settled on a fair price.

Today, I was sitting talking with a past ANA president (Mr. Lewis) and his son when a friend of his came by to chat as well. This man was assembling a Cap and Ray date set. So Mr. Lewis suggested to him that he should have me check the collection. His collection had as the 1824 Hookneck a Riddell # 191 and as the 1832 a Riddell # 165. Both very high grade coins - no test cuts, both purchased from very respected dealers. It was a big surprise for the collector but I had a reprint copy of Riddell with me (1969 Mexican NA reprint) and I could show him exactly what I meant. I bet his next stop was the row of authenticators from each of the grading services to see if I was right.

I also picked up a few interesting duplicate counterfeit types with strange appearances. More than anything else I saw forgeries in significant numbers. Several dealers confirmed origins on ebay. Nuff said.

I was finally able to sell all but two of the coins I brought with me - not the Japanese Yen however. I guess I will keep it for a while.

I also sold a few books.

All in all a very good show.

I hope that did not come across as elitist in tone.

At the NYITL show I saw a 1785 BRASS Eight Reales with a GIII CIRCULAR counterstamp. I said to the dealer I am not buying it! It was only $200.00. Not sure if it was GNL listed. I said let someone else cherry-pick this item. Well at $200 that could be debatable. But I did tell him if I saw at the NTITL 2017 show I would buy it. He had the GNL book so I told him to post to ebay with a $200 reserve.

BTW - Karl Stephens had a MIRACULOUS 8 Reale Spanish Philip V 8R CCC for $250. KM#266 type with hand engraved milled edges at an angle and hand cut lettering - throughout. I also passed as there were other more better regal items at the show in terms of Mexican.

Paul Bosco asked if I could contact an interested GNL book buyer that wanted the GNL book autogrpahed. I gave him my E-Mail so I could pass it over to Gurney.

It was a great show NYITL/NYC in terms of merchandise.

JPL

I will take a look at it tonight (at work) or Bob Gurney can chime in in the interim. I have a lot of RESPECT for this firm and also Civitas Galleries who is posting a lot of KOOL CCCs lately. See their latest Brazil CCCs offerings. I consider these two coin firms excellent avenues for CCC 8R listings - because they are not as BIG as Heritage or Stacks/Bowers and hence the coin cataloging would be much BETTER served. Bob - you listening ... LOL.
BTW - I do not consider that Chihuahua piece to be a Blacksmith. Why? It needs to be on a blacksmith flan - I did review that specimen at NYITL. It has 90* edges (i.e., struck in a collar) and its apples/oranges from a blacksmith type flan. So what is it? A Belleville, NJ mule of Canadian/Mexican dies? <BG>. Just because it does not fit anywhere does not make it a Blacksmith. Why not call it a Mexican mule? But its too late - its already in Charlton due to its Canadian flavor <BG>

JPL