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Fourth Party Grading Of TPG. It's Out Of Control

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davec13's Avatar
United States
757 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  09:42 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I know that a lot of collectors don't like the idea of TPG in general, but what about the TPG graders? CAC came around and offered another opinion on the coin in the holders. I first heard about CAC and thought it was just a money grab and wanted nothing to do with it. Looking at it now, my decision seems foolish as the CAC coins definitely do bring a premium at auction.

I was just looking a ebay and started seeing more and more stickers on slabs that I have never heard of. I did a little digging and I think I could potentially get an entire slab covered front to back in stickers. You may not even be able to tell there is a coin in the slab.

I know some of these stickers will be accepted and others will not, but where does it end?


I may for the heck of it spend the money and send out a slab to see if I can make it look like a nascar vehicle.

Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The primary purpose of most of the TPG's today are to narrow the grade down for those who have no clue how to grade. Keep in mind that the majority of expensive coins (you have to use your own definition for expensive) probably are, or will be slabbed.

The very high end buyers who don't want to depend on their own idea for grade and don't want to learn how to grade still have a decided influence on market prices.

That's to say nothing of the chance of making poor decisions, even if you know how to grade, in regards to fakes, counterfeits, cleaned, tooled, or retoned coins.

So there is a place for TPG's that isn't likely to ever go away. As a rule of thumb, I usually don't buy coins over $200 unless they are from NGC or PCGS. Granted, they are not always right - but neither is anyone else. And from the decades of buying and selling coins, it is so much easier to do both if they are slabbed by those two companies.

As far as CAC is concerned, it really isn't much different than the star and plus that is given by PCGS and NGC. Too, if you look at enough slabbed coins in the same grade on the same date/mm it is likely that MOST folks WILL find that the ones tagged as CAC DO have better eye appeal. Not necessarily an itty bitty bit better grade, or the top end of a grade, or almost to the next grade - but simply more appealing.

Last year at our local coin club I set up a display with 40 NGC and PCGS coins of varied types and from a great range in dates. I covered all but the coin itself, obverse and reverse, and asked for opinions as to grade. We had 41 people try their grading (it was our Christmas party, which explains the larger attendance). Only three of the 40 coins had CAC stickers, but all three received an average of 1.8 (nearly two full grades, all MS) above the actual assigned grade.

That is particularly interesting since all but six of the other 37 averaged slightly less (about .3 of a grade) than the slabbed grade.

I'm fully aware that this was a small test with a small sampling. Still, it did help for us to realize that TPG's in particular were not so far off the majority of the time from our own opinions. And, in this small case, the CAC's did markedly better.

Note I do NOT specifically collect CAC myself, and I do not let it influence my own buy price (the coin itself does that). In the above example less than 10% of the coins had CAC and that's also true for the rest of my inventory and collection.

BUT if all I have to go by is a pictures on the bay, CAC helps me know I'm not likely to get something ugly.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The fact that CAC has become popular means that coin collectors in general have lost the ability to grade.
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Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On 5000.00 and more coins good to have an extra confirmation.
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matttheriley's Avatar
United States
1512 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
THE NEXT BIG THING!

Hiring a Certified Public Accounting Firm to perform an "Agreed Upon Procedures" engagement for evaluating a CAC assessed TPG coin!



Now that I think about it, I am a CPA...this could be a lucrative undertaking!

Mr. Kairu, let's do this!

Rest in Peace
Buddy's Avatar
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I may for the heck of it spend the money and send out a slab to see if I can make it look like a nascar vehicle.



May I suggest starting with Super Third Party (STP). I'll leave Penzoil for somebody else to figure out.
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Cascade's Avatar
United States
7390 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm I wonder...

How long did it take for cac to take off & start to add market premiums... Was it after heritage started sending coins to them or were they already widely accepted by then? My point is did heritage give them the boost into legitimacy?
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edweather's Avatar
United States
7375 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2016  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How about a sticker with Beyonce's picture on it With her approval of a coin, and her number of fans, the sky's the limit.
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