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Ancient ID Help Needed

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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  2:32 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I had been under the impression that this is Constantine I 307-337, but I can find virtually no references to a helmeted laureate bust left. I am not even certain that it is genuine! Any thoughts?
Any links to an ID?




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Ancient-ID-Help-Needed
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay - I think I found it:

Quote:
Anonymous Issue during the reign of Constantine I, AE3, 330-333, Heraclea, Officina 4
CONSTAN_TINOPOLI
Laureate, helmeted bust of Constantinople left in imperial mantle, scepter over left shoulder
(No legend)
Victory standing facing on prow, head left, scepter in right hand, left hand on shield
. SMHD in exergue
17mm x 19mm, 2.27g
RIC VII, 120 (R2)


Source:
http://www.beastcoins.com/RomanImpe...Heraclea.htm

What does "RIC VII, 120 (R2)" mean?
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Athalbert's Avatar
Spain
629 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Athalbert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
RIC means ROMAN IMPERIAL COINS, the great work about this coinage made by the British Museum; VII is the volume number (number 7), 120 is the number of the coin, and the (R2) means the rarity of the coin, but actually is not very reliable...
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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2016  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you - this area is completely new to me!
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lrbguy's Avatar
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949 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
VII is the volume number (number 7), 120 is the number of the coin


Slight revision. The coins in RIC VII are arranged by mint, and the numerical listings start with #1 for each mint. Zach Beasley did the website you used, and he had specified in the description that the mint for that particular example was Heraclea. So for identification of that coin the full citation should read RIC VII Heraclea 120.

I wish for your sake it were that simple, but it is not.

For coins of this type from Heraclea, the default officina (workshop) was number 4, signified in the mint mark by a Greek letter <delta>. From what I am seeing, your coin does have a delta near the end of the mark. But it also appears to me that the delta is followed by another small mark which I take to be a dot. That is important for identification, since the ID for the item you cited from the Beasley site only applies to coins in which the mint mark is of the form <dot>SMH<delta>

For your coin I can make out _MH<delta><dot>, and presumably there is an S ahead of the M. However, I cannot tell if there was anything ahead of the S, and that matters in this case.

If there is indeed a final dot in the mint mark, then there are two possible RIC entries for coins of this type from Heraclea, and neither of them is #120. They are as follows:

125 - <dot>SMH<delta><dot> (R= s)
135 - <dot><dot>SMH<delta><dot> (R= r3)

Since the critical point of distinction is off the flan on your coin, we cannot determine which of these two it might be. But the first of these is the most commonly encountered variety for this type at Heraclea.

If I am wrong and there is no final dot at the end of the mint mark, then there are three entirely different possibilities for what the RIC number for your coin might be (one of which can be excluded for other reasons). I can brief you on that if you need it, but let us first establish what is actually happening at the end of that mark on your coin.



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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 01/30/2016  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all that information!
If you have a link I would certainly like to know it.
I have just taken some better photos and will post them tomorrow. Right now I am on my way to my 75th birthday celebration!
Rest in Peace
moxking's Avatar
United States
17900 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2016  11:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always enjoy the quick and reliable information provided in this section. I know I'm getting closer to digging out my old ancients.
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2016  08:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some photos of the area I think contains the Mint Mark (but I am not sure!).



Ancient-ID-Help-Needed

Ancient-ID-Help-Needed
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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7066 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2016  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! I want your camera, Pete! Great, sharp details.


Quote:
Right now I am on my way to my 75th birthday celebration!


CCF needs to add a happy birthday emoji. Happy B-Day!
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2016  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Bob L.

My "camera" for these close ups is a cheap (<$20) USB Microscope!
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lrbguy's Avatar
United States
949 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2016  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My "camera" for these close ups is a cheap (<$20) USB Microscope!


Which just goes to show yet again: sometimes its the gear, but more often its how the gear is used.


Now I am sure that
1. your mark has a final dot
and
2. we will not be able to determine what, if anything, lies ahead of the initial letter of the mint mark, since all but the tip of the "S" itself is off the flan.

So it is either 125 or 135 for Heraclea in RIC VII.
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Pete2226's Avatar
United States
3330 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2016  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Irbguy.
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