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1869 Three Cent W/ Clash

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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  12:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here is an 1869 Three Cent with with some great die clash marks and some doubling (see last A in AMERICA).
Please grade.

1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash

1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
This one is over exposed to show rt. facing portrait clash.
1869-Three-Cent-W/-Clash
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  04:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to withhold my opinion on a grade here until I better understand the official numismatic position/ruling on the how and why of clashes affecting (either positively or negatively) the grade of all coins.
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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
36745 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-55
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Justinwd's Avatar
United States
311 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  12:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Justinwd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow that portrait clash on the reverse is nice. Never seen one like that before.
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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not think there is an "official" point of view. I will share my personal opinion.

Die clash is a mint defect. Whether or not it reduces the value of a given coin is up to the collector.

For many series, "deep" collectors will pay slight premiums or even high premiums for spectacular die clashes. Flying Eagle cents, Morgan dollars, the Liberty Seated series, and two cent/three cent pieces are examples of series where clashed die varieties are generally accepted, and to some, highly desired based on the extent of the clash and the clashed coin's scarcity.

In this case, I would defer to one of the more avid 3CN collectors/students here, but I should think that given the strength of this clashed pair & the results on the coin, that it would not affect the technical grade in the least, and might be very interesting to error coin enthusiasts, 3CN variety collectors, and clashed die fans in general. Personally, I love this coin and would gladly pay to own a similar specimen.

I do not think that in modern grading a genuine mint error clashed die will make much, if any, impact on the technical grade of a coin at any major TPG.

That being said, there are plenty of collectors who prefer non-defective coins and who would not really be interested in this particular coin due to the clash. To each their own.

The same applies to other mint-caused errors or issues (die cracks, Retained Cuds, rusted dies, MAD, off-center/broadstrike/OOC, double struck, flan clips, hub doubling...) -- some collectors greatly prefer and value these coins and others do not want to collect them.

Just my 3 cents. AB
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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ChildOfTheWheat's Avatar
United States
5828 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ChildOfTheWheat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU Details, cleaned? or are those die polishing lines from a mint worker trying to get rid of the clash?
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mdpmedia's Avatar
United States
3546 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mdpmedia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was motivated on this particular coin: enough to pose some related questions addressed by a bedrock, coop, whose related comments may be of interest to some:

https://goccf.com/t/253968

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TJsCoins's Avatar
United States
3229 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  10:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
AU Details, cleaned? or are those die polishing lines from a mint worker trying to get rid of the clash?


There are some very old hairlines on the cheek. The coin is fairly dull under normal light but some muted cartwheel comes out between the legends and the rim. Not sure if it would grade by a TPG but I have seen way more hairlines on TPG graded coins from this era. Pics are fairly acurate. Some of the clash marks may be appearing as hairlines. Clashmarks are everywhere!
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Joseph7420's Avatar
Canada
11922 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseph7420 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU-55.
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CoinHuntingDrew's Avatar
United States
4932 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  11:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHuntingDrew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Middle pillar is worn. XF-45 max on this one.
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2016  03:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm at EF45 as well.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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