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Interesting Statistics From Ebay

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swamperbob's Avatar
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 Posted 02/20/2016  03:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
There seem to be a lot of people who believe that ebay monitors posts to enforce their own rules.

If that were true, ebay could perform a simple search using their own terms to determine that a significant number of all postings in the world coins category are prohibited by their rules and the seller is clearly admitting that to anyone familiar with the vocabulary used by ebay.

Today in the world coin section there are 589,000 items. I did not confirm that number by count and I know it is slightly high since other items like books show up in the category. A SWAG (based on a random sample), indicates that about a half million coins are running.

A search of 4 prohibited terms (replica, copy, counterfeit and forgery) disclosed nearly 2,000 violations.

So 2,000 out of 500,000 coins or nearly 1/2 percent could be terminated automatically if ebay simply chose to do so.

Next I expanded the list to 12 terms including those normally used by counterfeit collectors. The number located expanded to over 3,200 items or about 0.7% of all posts.

These 3,200 auctions are the honest sellers who are giving fair warning to bidders that what they are selling is not genuine. These are soft targets for termination. I never included these in my totals for removal. It was like shooting sitting ducks - not sporting.

Then I used the 15 terms that more devious individuals use to "evade" potential screens and yet still disclose what they are doing. That raised the total to about 7,500 fraudulent auctions which raises the percentage to 1.5% of all posts. The "give away phrases" and words are familiar to me and some other committee members and were developed specifically to identify patterns associated with the big forgery rings.

The final statistic is an extrapolation based on my daily search of auctions involving 8 reales. In those auctions which average 2,800 coins on any given day, I discover on average 360 coins that are fraudulent in some fashion both with and without any warning. That rate is 13%. If I take that rate and apply it to all 589,000 coins in the world coin section - I would estimate that as many as 76,000 items could be fraudulent EVERY DAY.

Extrapolate that to include all of the coin categories and the average number of auctions is 1,800,000 items of which perhaps 250,000 are fraudulent at any one time (terminating over roughly a 10 day average interval).

The number is mind boggling but it captures the potential scope of the problem. The number is impossible to police effectively with a committee of 8 persons. If all 8 worked 8 hours a day 7 days a week - they would have to average over 3,000 coins per day per member. That is 766 per hour, 13 a minute or one coin about every 5 seconds. Even if the reviewing staff was 10 times bigger you would get only 55 seconds per coin.

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Edited by swamperbob
02/20/2016 03:27 am
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 Posted 02/20/2016  07:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yikes. Assuming that the fakes are purchased at the same rate as the genuine coins, then one in eight purchases is of a fake. It is nice to have numbers behind my gut feeling that buying coins on ebay is a bad idea. Thank you for the analysis.
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 Posted 02/20/2016  07:57 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In your searches, did you exclude terms like "not". For example, a listing may state "not a replica", but a search for only "replica" would lead one to believe that the listing was "fraudulent".

Statistically speaking, using research on one specific coin (8R) and then applying it to all coins is just not valid. 8R are known to be frequently counterfeited. This is like polling people in a specific prison to find that 60% of them are murderers, and then extrapolating that to mean 60% of the world's population are murderers.

If I studied, say, 50¢ car wash tokens listed on ebay, and found no fakes, I could extrapolate that to mean there are no fakes being sold on ebay. It, obviously, would not be a valid extrapolation.

However, regardless of the size of the fraudulent coin selling on ebay, if ebay REMOVED sellers (NARU) that sold fakes, and consistently removed them, regardless of how long they have been with ebay or how high their sales volume, the problem would start to become more manageable.
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 Posted 02/20/2016  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recognize that there are limitations in the sample methods but it does not make it totally invalid. The 8R stats always were comparable with other target populations. For instance US Lincoln cents are plagued with copies of 1909-S, 1914-D, 1955 DDO etc. Almost every series except perhaps tokens that you cited (we had no token expert so we rarely replied to token questions) has similar problem areas. World coins in general are heavily targeted across a very wide range by the Chinese and Eastern European groups.

In compiling the stats for 8Rs, I used a fraud standard and did exclude the "Not a counterfeit" type listings. The fraud standard that the committee used included all types of fraud - incorrect or deceptive description - pictures borrowed from other sources - misleading photos - actual counterfeits not properly described - all forgeries even if described - all cleaned coins that are not identified as such - all coins that are damaged with no disclosure.

The problem with ebay is not limited to forgery alone - there is basically no one who can protect a novice buyer from fraud by someone selling them a polished coin as MS. There are other tricks used as well. I in particular DETESTED the "unsearched roll" con where a roll of pennies is sold with a convenient end shot of an Indian cent. This scam is as old as mankind. It is however a practice that is banned by the ANA and constitutes FRAUD.

I think that if you look at any section of coins with an eye toward all deceptive sales practices you will easily find 1 auction in 8 that contains a violation.
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