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Frosted Devices

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nss-52's Avatar
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 Posted 02/26/2016  07:47 am Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does anyone know how the mint came to start making coins with frosted devices? Was it on purpose, or by accident?

Why are some, say, Morgan dollars frosted and some not?

I know they do it on purpose now, but what about back in the 1800s?
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 Posted 02/26/2016  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
(I think) back then on business strike coins they were frosted only on the few coins coming off of a new die. As the die wore the frost lessened. Now proof coins are a different story. They were made on purpose to have a "cameo" look and were given to dignitaries.
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 Posted 02/26/2016  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "frost" is caused by a microscopic granularity in the recesses of the die as a result of the die-making process. Condor will probably expand on that.
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 Posted 02/26/2016  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mints around the World started making frosted devices for proof coins, because they look nice for collectors.

Originally a proof coin was the be the best quality possible obtainable to be used as a stardard against which other business strike coins could be compared. Only a very few would be needed, and hence this class of proof coin is extremely rare.

Modern collectors have proof coins specially made for them to sold to them for a profitable premium polished dies and planchets with frosted devices look attractive and are easier to sell. The frosting used to be done by masked sandblasting or acid etching, more often done now by laser etching. Some of the detail necessarily has to be lost by this process, which is a pity. This type proof coin is never intended to used as a standard.

Thr real monarchs of proof coins are those made before about 1950 that were made for their original purpose. Occasionally these were made in off metals, called 'off metal strikes'.
An example of these are the British William 1V silver crown of 1821, or the Victorian silver Gothic crown, or the George V silver crown of 1935 (all struck in gold), or a George 11 farthing struck in silver.

Some gold sovereigns from the Sydney Mint were struck in silver. There is some doubt that these may be better termed as 'pattern' coins, rather than 'off metal strike' proof coins.

?question?:
Are there any official U.S. silver Peace or Morgan (or earlier) Dollars struck in gold?
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 Posted 02/26/2016  10:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgan designed the dollar to have the capability to produce a cameo surface with mirror fields and frosted devices. The master die for the Margan dollar had a cameo surface and was transferred to the working dies. The devices has a natural rough surface that created the frosted effect. The fields were polished to enhance the mirror effect. As the dies wore from use the frost and mirror effect weakened. Leroy Van Allen estimates that a working die would produce from 500 to 2000 cameo Morgan dollars. Something changed in the preparation of the dies after 1900 because very few of these Morgan dollars display the cameo effect.
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Quote:
Morgan designed the dollar to have the capability to produce a cameo surface with mirror fields and frosted devices.


So was the Morgan dollar the first US coin exhibiting frosted devices? If not, what is the earliest example of a proof or non-proof with frosted devices.
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 Posted 02/29/2016  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dipper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No. First you need to qualify your question. Frosted devices are a usual product of coin making. Just about any new coin can be called frosted.

If you are asking about cameo frosted devices and mirror fields, that is a different thing. Dies for these coins are etched.

Frosted "cameo" coins existed before Morgan dollars but they were not Deep cameo. Walter Breen has a discussion of proofs in one of his books.
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I don't have any of Breen's books.
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 Posted 03/01/2016  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Depends on what you mean by frost.

Frosted can mean coins that look like they are white with frost - very high mint state coins but with "frosty" instead of "prooflike" luster. "Blast white" gets used a lot, too.

You can also refer to cameo devices on Proofs as "frosted." They contrast with the brilliant mirrored fields, creating a "black-and-white" look.

As far as frosted proofs go: I'm not an expert but I will share what I know.

I've seen some of the very, very early proofs (late 18th and early 19th c.)

By modern standards some collectors might even find them unattractive, being full of die polishing lines, recutting, and other artifacts.

A proof strike was originally just that -- to prove that a design was suitable for minting. These coins were struck not only for preservation (e.g. the Mint Cabinet) but also used to reward dignitaries, representatives, ambassadors, influential businessmen, etc. You might see them referred to as "specimens." I think this ran through the early 1830s.

IIRC the first trading of "proof" coins to collectors and individuals started in the later years of the 1830s. By the late 1850s the Mint started selling Proof coins directly to the public.

From the late 1850s onward you can find CAM and (very rarely) DCAM/UCAM Proofs. Those have the "frosted" look accentuated.

The Morgan dollars, in particular, had the "frosty cameo" look for Uncirculated coins on early die strikes, most often on 1878-1881 coins minted in San Francisco, and occasionally on coins from the other 2 mints. Those Prooflike/Deep Mirror Prooflike resulted from very fine polishing of the fields, which lasted for however many hundreds/thousands of strikes before taking on an appearance of a normal Uncirculated Morgan dollar (non-PL.)
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