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Replies: 17 / Views: 5,288 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
I have just stumbled upon the largest scam involving rare coins that I have ever witnessed in my life! The link below will take you to the completed (SOLD) listings of a "Top Rated" ebay seller. Scroll through them only focusing on the coins and then come back and post your findings. http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?LH_A...EFSRCHX:SRCHEvery single collector with a general knowledge of numismatics and TPG companies should be able to scratch the surface of this horrific scam but only a few will be able to grasp the magnitude of the manipulation that this one seller is causing towards the fair market value of rare coins! Everyone on this forum needs to read this! I will let a few post their findings and then expand on any remaining issues that might have been missed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
54283 Posts |
Are you concerned that all the bids are by o***a? These are "live auction" listings, and NONE of ebay's rules apply to them. They can charge fees on top of the bid price. They can shill bid. They can accept cash, checks, etc. They can list duplicates. They can disclaim authenticity, etc. etc. o***a is probably ebay scramble for anonymous. Every completed live auctions I've looked at shows this as the bidder.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1602 Posts |
Quote:NONE of ebay's rules apply to them In fact I don't even think there's a burden of proof that these properties or items belong to the seller, or that the seller has the right to sell these items. As for the graded coins, the sell price becomes "attached" to a number issued by a TPG and that sale price becomes a matter of record. The same coins sell multiple times, every couple weeks. Also, the 1907 St. Gaudens in the PCGS slab isn't recognized by PCGS. Am I wrong? It's a heck of a dangerous game!
Edited by Biedercoins 03/04/2016 09:19 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
o***a is the automatic bidder for proxy bids. All live auctions are like this. You send the auction company your max bid before the auction, and the automatic bidder will bid for you on that lot. No scam here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1211 Posts |
The SCAM word sure has been casually thrown around a lot lately...
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Forum Dad
 United States
24180 Posts |
Quote: The SCAM word sure has been casually thrown around a lot lately... Yeah, fraud too. Half the people that use the fraud don't even know what it means.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
616 Posts |
Here is but one example of the exact same coin selling 4 different times in the span of less than a month.  I find it highly unlikely that four different buyers chose to resell the same coin immediately after purchasing it. And to use the same auction company to do so?  Although not impossible, it's highly improbable. And being that most were "bid up" with multiple bids, screams shill bidding to me! There is another example where the same exact 1955 DDO 1¢ NGC AU DETAILS "Improperly Cleaned" was sold six different times in five weeks. And it covered a much larger price margin, selling for hundreds then for thousands, back to hundreds then ultimately sold for $2000+! Correct me if I'm wrong but all NGC and PCGS slabs sold at auction are included in that coins "details" data and recorded on their corresponding TPG webpage under "recent auction results", which in turn greatly influences the weekly/monthly Gray Sheet / Trends price guides? To me that data is obviously corrupt, and should be excluded. The more I look, the more corrupt auction data I find involving a wide range of many different types of slabbed coins. ebay is obviously more concerned about their profit margin than reprimanding one of their high volume, "Top Rated Sellers" that has maintained such an outstanding feedback rating of 93%! It may not be criminal....but it darn sure ain't right!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1602 Posts |
For genuine numismatic fraud, see p.31 of this week's Coin World about the Tulving case. And we'll always have China.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
As has been explained, the bids are autobids and may have nothing to do with a living breathing human making an offer.
This isn't a scam - it's the way these auctions are set up. Some coins will be listed as sold several times before that real human actually appears.
Please explain what you are in such a tizzy about. From reading what you've written all I'm seeing is someone calling a dealer who sells millions of dollars worth of high value items a fraud.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1949 Posts |
Quote:
Quote: The SCAM word sure has been casually thrown around a lot lately...
Yeah, fraud too. Half the people that use the fraud don't even know what it means. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
In their sold listings, they also have many pictures of the exact same home, the exact same diamonds, the exact same etc etc. Their feedback is horrible though, and most of it is for low priced items. Maybe the expensive items never really sold at all, but just kept getting relisted.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4594 Posts |
I could be simply not sold, rolling over from auction to auction... I've seen that with another site.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/
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Forum Dad
 United States
24180 Posts |
There could be a reserve in the live auction that wasn't met. Also, a lot of the negs are for payment refused, item not received, etc. This is because the high bid was on the floor, not ebay. This has been a huge problem with live auctions on ebay ever since they started.
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Moderator
 United States
54283 Posts |
Quote:As for the graded coins, the sell price becomes "attached" to a number issued by a TPG and that sale price becomes a matter of record. Is this a proven fact, or conjecture?
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here)
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
616 Posts |
Quote:As for the graded coins, the sell price becomes "attached" to a number issued by a TPG and that sale price becomes a matter of record. This is the problem I have with these types of auctions and the way they operate. If the coin doesn't sell, they shouldn't say that it did just to roll it over to the next auction! Because this corrupt data IS being recorded into the auction archives of the TPG companies, thus greatly affecting the coins cumulative value. The screenshot in my earlier post was from PCGS Coin Facts, and for that particular coin can't you see how the three corrupt auction results could greatly alter its average selling price and in turn, affect its speculative value?
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Replies: 17 / Views: 5,288 |