Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. 300,000 items to help build your collection! Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!Specializing in Modern Numismatics Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1832 Hard Times Andrew Jackson Token (Ht-1, Ht-1A Or Something Else?)

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 3,327Next Topic  
New Member

United States
9 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2016  2:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm a little stumped on this one, so any info is appreciated. Tokens are a bit out of my domain so all I know is what I've been able to Google thus far. Anyway, I recovered this token metal detecting on Long Island on Saturday evening. From what I gather (and please correct whatever I have wrong) it's a Hard Times token from 1832 and fairly scarce. Are there multiple versions/variations of this token? I came across "HT-1" and "HT-1A" but not much else. I'll be happy to upload any pics or add any other info that's requested (token is a bit wet in the pics after I rinsed it-- didn't use any solvents or cleaners, just soap and water).

It appears to be identical or very similar to this token: https://whitman.com/redbook/6342

A resource I found that lists these w/descriptions: http://www.hardtimestokens.com/AndrewJackson.html

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?
Edited by Dave2000
04/04/2016 2:51 pm
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2016  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Dave ... Welcome to the CCF!

Great find, despite the condition. Judging from the position of the S in JackSon, I'd say you found an HT-1.
Edited by ExoGuy
04/04/2016 3:21 pm
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2016  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Exo. Here's a closeup of JACKSON, if it helps. What are some of the other differences between 1 and 1A? (There was mention of his hair being different, but that's just too hard for me make out on mine). Thanks for the help!

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?
Edited by Dave2000
04/04/2016 3:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2016  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having never owned one of these, I've not studied the varieties. Regarding this one, I simply compared the position of the obverse letters, fousing on the S, with regard to Jackson's chin. I compared it to one that Hayden sold at auction, and I presume that his was correctly attributed. A few other CCF members may yet chime in and either correct or confirm my thoughts.

While this a rare token, the condition is best described as "scudzy" which doesn't translate to big bucks. If anything, it may be the worst known specimen. That said, I'm of the opinion that it's still worth conserving. Personally, I'd submit it to NCS for authentication and conservation. It's value lies in its history and the small number of surviving specimens .... Not to mention the pride of the finder!

Here's the NCS website: http://www.ncscoin.com/
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2016  4:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great, thanks for the info! Haha, yes, I'll gladly take the "worst known" only because it means that aren't that many known to begin with (I believe there are less than 30 HT-1 specimens known, given its R-6 rarity?). Some of the details are actually quite strong (i.e. the leaves on the reverse and the lettering across the top of the rim) and most of the damage seems to be environmental/corrosion rather than wear.

With that said, I'm surprised it's in as relatively good condition as it is; this was found about 50 yards from the Long Island Sound in a wooded hillside about 10 feet from a local road. Initially I thought it was a large cent (I'd found an 1848 LC about 20 feet away last year), but it felt too thin for that-- this only weights 5 grams. It's probably my favorite "coin" find, despite the condition. My only other token find is a Chuck E. Cheese token (I wish I was kidding).

Any other opinions or comments are welcome. Thanks again, and I'll be readying this for submission to NCS.

(This is what it looked like in the light of day for the first time in nearly 200 years):

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?
Edited by Dave2000
04/04/2016 4:46 pm
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2016  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the update on this token.

It was authenticated as an HT-3 with a details grade of GOOD 4. I believe the last public sale of an HT-3 was in 2009 for $11,385, but granted, that token was in much better condition. HT-3 is listed as an R7 rarity. These are the ANACS pics of the authenticated/graded token:

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?

1832-Hard-Times-Andrew-Jackson-Token--Ht-1,-Ht-1A-Or-Something-Else?
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
BigSilver's Avatar
United States
2843 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2016  10:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great follow up.
Nice find, I am sure this has been a great ride for you.
BTW I love LI, went to school in Long Beach.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2016  11:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks-- I grew up on the south shore but I'm on the north shore now. L.I. is a great place to live.

Lots of history here too and you never really know what's going to turn up when you're out detecting.
Pillar of the Community
ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4415 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2016  5:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations, Dave! This is great news of a rare find! This sure is a noteworty beginning for you on the CCF.

Looks like my tentative attribution was incorrect. I've never owned or before studied an HT-1 or HT-3. The condition issues frustrated my effort, as well. When I found a few, well worn NC large cents, it took me at least an hour of study, then having coin-in-hand, to peg the Sheldon variety. It's not often that the average collector gets to study such rare pieces in hand. Even when pics are good, I find it more difficult.

While ANACS in all probability got the attribution correct, I remain far more confident in NGC when it comes to tokens. Also, with a token such as this rare HT-1, I personally would have chosen to have it professionally conserved, prior to being slabbed.

I, too, was born and raised on "The Island." While I have fond memories of the beaches, the boardwalk, Nathan's and other amenities, I surely don't miss the traffic, the congestion, the commuting, the lines of shoppers AND the taxes! My property tax in Tennessee is but $360 a year, and gas prices are far less than those in NY.
New Member
United States
9 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2016  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dave2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the feedback, Exo. Actually you were correct that it was not 1A, and given the pictures that I was able to take, that's all that can really be expected (I only framed it within the context of 1 or 1A, since I hadn't really considered the others). Again, I'm surprised the corrosion is as extensive, considering some of the other finds I've made at this site (i.e. some very solid and readable copper and brass flat buttons that predate the token).

(And about those property taxes-- I am always amazed by what everyone else pays compared to how it is here. Mine are in the low five figures).
  Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 3,327Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.3 seconds to rattle this change. Forums