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 Replies: 17 / Views: 8,509 |
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Valued Member
262 Posts |
Here's a question for the advanced collectors who have been in the hobby for a while.. What's the deal with CGA? Receiving my first CGA graded note I can see that they're decent but not quite as great quality as PMG or PCGS but almost.. Why was my GEM 65 graded North Africa $1 Note won for what I thought was a really really good price and uncontested too. It was graded 65 GEM by CGA but 65 grades by PMG and PCGS were going for what seemed like quite a bit more then my CGA. Whats the deal with that, any reason for this? Also can someone explain what happened on ebay why CGA is not approved. I notice a lot of CGA notes being covered up, etc, although there are still some out in the open ( I figure some don't know) THX.. Just curious if there's a good reason NOT to send my notes to CGA for grading. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Complicated question. Lots of politics involved. As a general guideline, CGA notes have always tended to grade one full point above PCGS or PMG notes of apparent similar quality, and occasionally slightly more. Over the years, the market has absorbed this disparity, with prices reflecting the difference. I think ebay was concerned that buyers might be confused by the apparent similarity in grades and so they gave CGA the boot. I disagree with this decision, but I can understand its rationale. Personally, I think CGA does a great job of judging quality paper money. I expect a slightly lower centering standard than PCGS/PMG when evaluating CU notes and bid accordingly. I have cracked several of these with complete success. |
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Valued Member
 262 Posts |
You say it was a complicated question coinfrog but I think you nailed it. Makes perfect sense and now I understand. I too disagree on that being a reason for ebay to give CGA the boot, doesn't seem fair. How is CGA in comparison to PMG price wise for them to grade your notes? Edited by CollectorKing
04/11/2016 9:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
ebay rules; Criteria for approved grading companies To be an approved grading service on ebay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria: The service has graded at least 100,000 pieces of currency. The service provides a live, online & accurate population report of graded currency. At least one of the company principals should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild. There are at least 2 graders on staff who are considered currency experts within the trade. A currency expert is an individual who has worked as a full-time numismatist (with a specialty in currency) for at least 5 years. Both graders should be members in good standing of the American Numismatic Association ( ANA) and Professional Currency Dealer Association (PCDA). The service provides a written buyback guarantee for currency later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, repaired, misgraded, or misattributed (not inclusive of mechanical or typographical errors related to the holder itself). This guarantee must apply to ALL notes encapsulated under the brand name of the currency. Third-party-graded (certified) currency must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method). The service enables online verification of unique certification numbers. Recently I sent 10 CGA graded notes to PMG and all 10 crossed exactly as graded by CGA. Here are two examples.     Perception is everything in currency pricing, and right now PCGS and PMG are the big dogs. Their holders are bringing the higher prices at auction, and are trusted by most collectors.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
I would like to also add..... @Coinfrog is correct, there are politics involved. Once CGA graded notes were banned at Heritage Auctions, and now at ebay, collectors took notice. CGA was the first TPG for paper currency and went through a scandal while owned by Jess Lipka. CGA was eventually sold to John Spinelli. John has worked hard to regain the trust (perception) of collectors. Turnaround times are much faster at CGA when compared to PMG or PCGS, and you do not pay membership fees to submit. If you send a CGA graded note to Heritage for auction, they will either cut it out and sell it raw, or send it to PMG or PCGS for grading. Some collectors prefer PMG or PCGS because of the registry, and the competition with other collectors. Edited to add; In a perfect world, where PMG, PCGS, CGA, and Superior were mutually respected and accepted at all auction venues, I would send my notes to CGA or Superior. Lower submission fees, no membership costs and much faster turnaround times. I am not interested in registry competition. Edited by SteveInTampa
04/12/2016 06:05 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Some great input here, Steve, and I thank you for these great comparison pics. It is not a perfect world, unfortunately, but I fully agree with you.
If I am reading you correctly, you submitted your CGA notes to PMG for a cross in their original holders, and did not cut them - is this right?
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Valued Member
262 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
I send my notes in for grading in mylar holders, never in TPG holders. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Got it, you sent them in raw (as I did). The word "cross" has a rather specific meaning in sending graded notes to a different TPG. Just confirming. |
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Valued Member
262 Posts |
Well that's good news then. So you sent the notes Raw and they were graded by PMG same as CGA! So, how long will it take for collectors to realize that CGA has stepped it up...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4637 Posts |
Unfortunately it's not up to the average collector. It's up to the major currency dealers and major auction houses. Rehabbing a tainted brand takes time and trusted acceptance. You and I sending in our $100-$1,000 notes won't make a difference. It's the $10,000 + notes and the holders they reside in that will change the tides. We are lucky we belong to a forum without a TPG affiliation. Try bringing this subject up at Collectors Universe. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
742 Posts |
While it may seem like quibbling, CGA was not banned from ebay for anything CGA did. CGA does not meet ebay's requirements that were posted above by Steve. CGA is not the only TPG that does not meet the requirements. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
CGA notes can still be found often on ebay, sometimes even with a full view of the holder which has escaped the censor's eye. More often, sellers have learned to crop down to the easily-recognized border of a CGA note, after which a potential buyer can communicate via the "Contact Seller" feature to learn the holder grade and (depending on generation) the paper quality designation. Edited by Coinfrog
04/13/2016 8:41 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Based on what I can see, I think it's unlikely that CGA will reach par with PMG and PCGS anytime in the near future. As most of you know, I have collected paper money for many years and have many hundreds of TPG notes. Among them are dozens and dozens of CGA notes that I have not cut and resubmitted, and perhaps never will. I bought them at a discount from comparably-graded PMG/PCGS notes for a simple reason: paper quality aside (which is difficult to ascertain with a holdered note), CGA centering standards were - and continue to be in the current generation - decidedly less conservative by a point or so as a general rule. A 66 OPQ GCA note will generally not exceed the centering norm for a 65 EPQ note from PMG or PPQ note from PCGS. Prices will reflect this, along with an extra butt-kick for the "inferior" CGA holder. These are generalities, of course. But until CGA makes yet again another design change and starts tightening their standards, they will not be taken seriously by the big players. Edited by Coinfrog
04/14/2016 7:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
I have notes from many different TPGs;have NOT cut nor re-submitted notes from the "inferior" TPGs. Frankly my continuing advice to all who ask:
1. Learn to grade!
2. Buy the NOTE and not the holder
Above all: Enjoy your hobby and remember it's a hobby and not your life-blood. Dealers excepted.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 8,509 |
Posted 04/11/2016 9:07 pm
