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 Replies: 109 / Views: 16,727 |
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Valued Member
Canada
77 Posts |
For those who did not see the actual ad, it did say that these were REPLICA coins. The ad did not say that they were stamped COPY ( my mistake) Purchasing these coins for this client who then refused to buy them was not driven by profit, since the set cost me $20 and the stamping of the word COPY cost me almost $50 and the buyer was going to pay $70 for this set ( no profit being made). You have to wonder what his intentions were for this set after he asked me to not get it stamped.
I have always had concern about these being available on the internet unmarked and that is why I did not sell them to him unmarked. As a long time buyer/ seller and a respected individual in the collecting community, I see now that just this one incident ( there have been no others in the past, or will be in the future) has caused me a great deal of grief. I am truly sorry for this and my apology goes out to all those whom I have offended.
I have been a collector since the age of 6 and do all that I can to pass my knowledge on to others. As far as my exhibits at coin shows go, I am a collector of contemporary counterfeit coins from around the world. My exhibits include Contemporary Counterfeit Canadian Coins ( mostly made of lead or white metal) going back to 1872 and the Bank of Commerce 1917 $100 Contemporaneous Counterfeit which is listed in the Charlton catalogue and is a much sought after note by collectors. I am not as some have indicated, exhibited any modern Chinese counterfeits or won awards with them. I am sure that many collectors own counterfeit coins, tokens or notes that are listed in the major catalogues and there is no problem with buying or selling them. I do not advocate that the modern Chinese replica coins ever be listed since they were made solely to defraud collectors whereas the contemporary items were made to be used strictly as currency.
*** Edited by Staff to add some paragraphs. ***
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
Now while hind sight is always 20/20 I think for this example and any other incident it would be better instead of blasting accusations on the a forum for all to read it would have been better to gather evidence.
In my opinion, this forum is a very appropriate venue. That a collector of counterfeits, a self-proclaimed expert of sorts aided by "educational" exhibits, publicly advertises and defends the sale of Chinese knockoffs (regardless of the excuse) while leveraging his affiliations to various organizations is beyond "offensive". It's a strong indication that something has gone very wrong that needs to get resolved. "As a member of the Windsor Coin Club, Michigan State Numismatic Society, Royal Canadian Numismatic Association and a Director of the Ontario Numismatic Association......." http://www.kijiji.ca/v-art-collecti...ionFlag=trueIt's frequently acknowledged that interest in numismatics in this country is waning, and I don't want to become totally convinced that the very organizations that were created to promote the hobby have become infiltrated by people who's sole motivation is personal benefit. Quote:I will watch this thread with interest to see if RCNA and ONA actually take action regarding this matter. Yes, I will too. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1223 Posts |
If a client asked you to rob a bank for him I'm sure you wouldn't it's a crime, why would you supply these to anyone, it too is a crime. You seem unaware that your actions are illegal. If you are around coins and and at coin shows all the time how is it that you are so unaware of the consequences of your actions. You still seem to think it's OK to supply these to your client it's just you want copy stamped on it, a numismatist would never consider selling any type of modern counterfeits stamped copy or not.
Cheers, Bill
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2019 Posts |
This is just a big mess, at the very least more awareness on the subject has been brought forth.
There is a need to have and study "fakes" there is no doubt but there needs to be some clear paths to follow, so far few seem to care if they are stamped "copys" or not stamped at all.
This is the problem,there just isn't much if any enforcement one way or the other it seems.
Edited by Northerncoins
05/09/2016 11:28 am
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Valued Member
Canada
77 Posts |
It seems very hypocritical for Mike to say that he does not support buying these Chinese fakes when he himself has bought a great deal of them. At the 2013 Toronto Coin Expo he laid out a bunch of the $5 silver maple leaf coins and asked dealers how much they would pay. Mike says that the dealers were practically rushing to purchase them, with most offering to pay $25 each for them. He then said " Good thing I only paid a dollar for them" He will likely claim that he was only displaying them for educational purposes. That is the same reason that I exhibit my contemporary counterfeits. I do not exhibit any Chinese counterfeits as others have suggested and none of my contemporary counterfeits are ever for sale.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
The problem in Canadian numismatics is an attitude that counterfeits will never effect ME.
I have had an elderly gentleman literally break down and cry in my kitchen when he learned that he had spent over 6k on 2 counterfeit coins. That was the day I started tilting at wind mills. Each and every counterfeit Canadian coin in the market place affects each and every collector either directly or indirectly. Below is a page direct from the seminar I did at expo.
Counterfeit Coins
Each and everyone of us as numismatists is affected by the very presence of counterfeit material.
Directly: The loss of money when unknowingly purchasing counterfeit material. The embarrassment/anger at being duped by lack of knowledge and or an unscrupulous seller. The loss of confidence in the market place or ones own ability to recognize counterfeit material.
Indirectly: Having to pay higher prices for material as dealers recoup losses to counterfeits. Loss in value/sales due to people leaving the hobby due to fear of the counterfeits.
Please realize that any new collector duped by a counterfeit may just leave the hobby and this affects all of us in one way or another.
Education is the Key!
Be proactive when you see a counterfeit!
Edited by nickelsguy
05/09/2016 2:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
I have purchased hundreds and hundreds of the counterfeit coins. For one reason and one reason only. To openly educate collectors. You on the other hand continue to demonstrate that your motives for purchasing them are for profit and every reason but education. You and I are very different. You hide behind ignorance and self defense where I openly (and most days alone) fight for collectors in stopping the proliferation of counterfeits. I am now done trying to educate YOU. I will await the decision of the RCNA as I am a member, although I am not a member of the ONA. Trust me on this fact: If the sanctions from both associations are not firm I will openly challenge the decisions. Mike Marshall |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Buying counterfeits should not be ok for anyone. I'm finding this to be quite confusing.
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Valued Member
Canada
77 Posts |
Mike, I have pointed out and informed both the ONA and the RCNA that this is the only Chinese coins or sets that I have bought and explained the reason why it was done. Yes it was wrong and I have admitted that also. Once the KIJIJI ad was challenged, I removed it and have said that I will put it away and not offer to sell it again. You like others on here want to make it seem like I do this for a living, which is not the case. As a long time coin buyer/seller, I have always been concerned about these items being available. As I pointed out, I was not going to let this set out of my hands without being marked COPY. I was of the belief that this would have been OK, but have now been educated otherwise and I accept that. As a collector of early Chinese banknotes, I am always concerned about what I buy on the internet, since banknotes are not immune from this problem. I first met you at the RCNA Convention in Edmonton and attended the RCMP forum on the counterfeit coins. I have read most if not everything that you have posted on the internet about these items in an effort to educate myself about what is out there |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
I have never been to a RCNA convention nor do I recall ever having met you. Edited by nickelsguy
05/09/2016 3:24 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
77 Posts |
I thought that you were part of the RCMP Symposium on counterfeits at the Edmonton RCNA Convention in 2009. If you were not there, then I have not met you. The information of the symposium was based on your work though. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
As I pointed out, I was not going to let this set out of my hands without being marked COPY. I was of the belief that this would have been OK, but have now been educated otherwise and I accept that. Mike has spent a decade or more trying desperately to stop this infiltration of fakes and has spent more time working with so many Federal departments on both sides of the US and Canada borders to find a way to stop this cancerous influx of cheap garbage knockoffs.. If you understand where he's coming from,..then you must also understand that he is tying to save our hobby. We all have to play a roll here...Mike has taught us .... now it's up to us to stand together and help him make his plan work.. Destroy the garbage (don't sell it or even give it away..) and help the hobby...or burnt novices will forever leave the hobby.. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
@ qaz
I do not know Mr Mike Marshall personally but I am aware of his reputation and I can remember doing a trade with him for some US nickels.
He would not have made a penny on the nickel trade , in fact I would think he would have done the trade at a loss just to help a fellow collector and to further the hobby.
I am aware also that he has been very proactive in the fight to stem the flow of counterfeits for quite some time now and casting aspersions on his reputation is ill informed and will not help your case one iota.
As you state you have been in the coin business for more than 4 decades and you are a member of various coin associations and as such you should know better than to try and sell counterfeits and pleading ignorance is not an option for someone with your experience and influance.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5402 Posts |
IF........the CBSA, the RCMP, and the RCM had worked as diligently on stopping this scourge of Chinese Garbage as Mike Marshall and a few others have we would not have this counterfeit coin crisis. The CBSA has a mandate to stop the importation of this Chinese garbage and does NOTHING about it. Pretty easy job really when you think about it . It comes in through one of three or four Canadian ports or international postal stations. YVR Parcel Plant, Gateway in Ontario, or Montreal . At the Market we do every Sunday , coins , rings , and other counterfeits are openly sold every week. We did get the coin guy kicked out after numerous complaints from ripped off customers. He sold a guy three laughable Morgan's for three hundred dollars. How sad for the promotion of Numismatics! As a member of the ANA I am duty bound to help in the effort to promote the hobby and educate as best I can. A personal note to Mike , keep plugging away , you do have support from a lot of us who wish to further the betterment of the hobby. A personal note to the subject of this thread, I hope for one that you are dealt with by both the ONA and the RCNA in an appropriate manner. Also if you do happen to cross MY path at a coin show or my table keep walking, it would NOT be a pleasure to meet you. You can spin your explanation any way you wish , but there is no place in our great hobby for counterfeits. PERIOD. Jack Noble Edited by Pacificoin
05/09/2016 10:27 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1049 Posts |
Quote:Once the KIJIJI ad was challenged, I removed it and have said that I will put it away and not offer to sell it again.
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The add should never have had to be challenged in order to express the difference between what is legally right vs what is legally wrong.
Mike Marshall has a means of dealing with coins like this set you put away in your safe, perhaps you could show good faith here and ship them to him for proper disposal.
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Replies: 109 / Views: 16,727 |
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Posted 05/09/2016 09:45 am
