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 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,504 |
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1679 Posts |
1. 1837 Montreal Bank Token 1/2p   2. 1837 Quebec Bank Token 1/2p   3. 1837 Quebec Bank Token 1p   4. 1852 Upper Bank Token 1p   Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
Not too good with tokens but I'd say VG8 scratches, VF30, F12, VF20
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New Member
Canada
34 Posts |
VG 8
VF 30
VG 10 (rim damage)
VF 20
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Will get to these later
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1857 BANK OF MONTREAL HALF PENNY:
Doctor Courteau identifies ten varieties of this series and numbers
these as varieties 14-23.
Dr. Courteau is concerned with the serif of the V in PROVINCE.
Of this series, Dr. Courteau is not so much concerned with whether
the V in on-line with the I, but rather the left-side of the serif
is perfect or broken.
Perfect serifs are found on varieties 15, 16, 17, and 23.
Defective serifs are found on varieties 14, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 22.
The token in the photo has a defective serif, thus were narrowed the
search to varieties 14, 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22.
Dr. Courteau also indicates whether the S in BAS and the S in SOU is inverted
(the upper section of the letter is larger than the lower).
The perfect S's are found on variety 14.
The S in BAS is inverted on varieties 15, 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, and 22.
The S in SOU is inverted on varieties 18, 19, 20, 21, and 23.
The token in the photo shew perfect S's.
This further confirms Courteau variety 14.
Further diagnostics concern the placement of the 1st A in CANADA in
relationship to the N in the same word.
The stand of the right leg of the A is on-line with the stand of the
left upright of the N on varieties 14, 15, 19, 20, and 21.
The same stand is higher than the N on varieties. 16, 17, 18, 22, and 23.
The stand of your token is on-line, thus variety 14 is further confirmed.
Finally, Dr. Courteau is concerned with whether the upper leaf of the Shamrock
has a complete or broken stem.
A broken stem is found on varieties 14, 17, 18, 19, 21, and 22.
A perfect stem is found on varieties 15, 16, 20, and 23.
Your token has a broken stem, ergo variety 14 is confirmed.
Courteau variety 14, Rarity factor of 2 (on a scale of 1-10).
Grade VG 10 scratches.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Typo of the initial reply. Change 1857 to 1837.
Difficulty arises when multiple inquiries are grouped on the same thread.
I would prefer having one item on each posting.
Another reason, when I submit, in this case, four work-up, care has to be
taken by the readers to associate which reply to which photo.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1837 QUEBEC BANK HALF PENNY:
Doctor Courteau identified some 18 different varieties.
Dr. Courteau is concerned with whether the V in PROVINCE is defective
and whether the same letter is on-line with the I in the same word.
Dr. Courteau is concerned with whether the S in BAS and the S in SOU
is normal or inverted (up-side down) and whether the same letters are
complete or broken.
Dr. Courteau is concerned with the placement of the A in CANADA in
relationship to the N in the same word.
Dr. Courteau is concerned with whether the 2nd O in CONCORDIA is
perfect or broken.
Dr. Courteau is also concerned as to whether the F in HALF is perfect
or shew a re-cut vertical to the cross bar.
Without going into all the detail of a process of elimination work-up,
only one variety exhibits two dots under the hind leg of the beaver and
rust defects about and above the AL in HALF. This is Courteau variety 3d.
Courteau variety 3d, Rarity factor of 1 (common).
Grade VF 30.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1837 QUEBEC BANK ONE PENNY:
Doctor Courteau identifies 15 different varieties of this series.
Dr. Courteau's initial grouping are to whether the ground is small or large.
(The break in the collar of the large ground is below the left shoulder.)
Large ground is found on varieties 12, 12a, 12b, 13, 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, 13e, 13f, 13g and 13h.
Small ground is found on varieties 14, 14a, and 14b.
Yours is of the large ground variety.
Dr. Courteau next indicates whether a period is after CANADA.
A large period is found on varieties 12, 12a, 12b, 14, 14a, and 14b.
No period is found on varieties 13, 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, 13e, 13f, 13g, and 13h.
Yours shews no period, ergo varieties 13, 13a, 13b, 13c, 13d, 13e, 13f, 13g or 13h.
Another area of concern is whether the outer rim of the Garder is broken (above the
I in CONCORDIA).
Perfect rims are found on varieties 12, 12a, 12b, 13b, 13d, 14, 14a, and 14b
Broken rims are found on varieties 13, 13a,13c, 13e, 13f, 13g, and 13h.
Yours shews a perfect rim to the Garder; and upon eliminating the large period
and small ground varieties, we narrow the search to 13b or 13d.
13b is further identified as "Perfect S in BAS, Lash shorter ending in an inward curve.
Figure 1 in date as letter I, Points of ribbons weakly struck."
13d is identified as "Inverted S in BAS, Right serif of V long. Rx ad 13b."
Thus, you have a Courteau variety 13b, Rarity factor of 4 (on a scale of 1-10).
Grade F 12 (dings).
doug
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Pillar of the Community
 New Zealand
1679 Posts |
 Doug you are totally awesome Thank you very much Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1852 ONE PENNY:
I will need to know the die-axis.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1679 Posts |
heaton mint--coin axis
Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Edited by fourmack
09/10/2016 7:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Concerning the 1852 ONE PENNY:
Doctor Courteau identified 24 varieties of this series, and grouped these into IV groupings.
Group I shews a smaller numeral 2 and are identified a varieties 234, 235, and 236.
Group II shews a narrow numeral 2 and are identified as varieties 237, 238, 239, 240, and 241.
Group III shews a large numeral 2 and are identified as varieties 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, and 253.
Group IV shews a wide numeral 2 and are identified as varieties 254, 255, 256, and 257.
All known Group I's exhibit a medal die-axis.
All known Group II's exhibit a coinage die-axis.
Group III' are found exhibiting coinage and medal die-axis.
Coinage die-axis are found on varieties 247-253 inclusive.
Medal die-axis are found on varieties 242-246 inclusive.
All known Group IV's exhibit a medal die-axis.
According to Fourmack's reply, the token in question is a coinage die-axis,
and from the photo, this is the narrow 2 variety making this a Group II variety (237-241).
more to follow...
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Continuation...
Concerning this series, Doctor Courteau is interested in the placement (cant) of
the numeral 2 the placement of the numeral 5,and the Grass Blades betwixt the right
Cornucopia and the right Rosette.
Briefly, Dr. Courteau references variety (Dr. Courteau also supplies additional data).
237. The 2 away from the 5, and the left end of the base of the 5 on-line with the centre
of a denticle. Two light [faint] blades point to the right rosette. R. 1.
This is not congruent with the photo of the token.
238. The 2 is still farther from 5, its left points betwixt two denticles.
Two blades point to the right rosette; the upper in heavy, but its centre is not filled in. R. 1.
This is not congruent with the photo either.
239. The 2 is recut at top and points {on-line] with the centre of a denticle.
Rev is the same as variety 238. R. 1.
This is not congruent with the photo either.
240. The 2 is plain [not recut], close to 5 and points [on-line] with the left [side]
of a denticle. The upper blade point to the right Rosette and from the lower one,
making a fork with its upper branch the shorter. R. 7.
Bingo, but just to make sure, we must examine the last possibility.
241. The 2 is a trifle farther from 5, and points to the centre of a tooth.
Two blades point to the right Rosette, the upper outline of upper one is half-cut,
the left end of the lower is forky. R. 1.
Variety 240 is confirmed. Of this grouping, this is the only scarce variety.
Good catch, a keeper.
Grade VF 20.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1679 Posts |
Cheers Don
Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,504 |
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