Ebay Seller Blackmail?

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Let's set one thing straight. Feedback should not be left by a seller immediately following payment. In fact, the seller should be the LAST one to leave feedback.

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Your point is well-taken on leaving feedback at the conclusion of a transaction (by both parties). That said, I suspect many buyers do not follow the argument of the seller having the final word--why? Unless sellers are sending items before they're paid, they clearly are in an advantageous position because they already have the buyer's money--in distinct contrast to the buyer who: 1. must wait for the item to arrive, 2. and hopes the item is as advertised. Because more of this process is dependent on the seller, I think they do merit more scrutiny.

But--for sake of argument, let's say you do get a bad buyer who says the item has not arrived or is not as advertised. Their claim could be either true or false, but aren't sellers able to protect themselves in these situations with insurance, tracking and a fair return policy? And while a dispute possibly brews, they still have the buyers money to do with as they please.

Sellers are welcome to disagree, but from this buyer's standpoint I don't see why sellers are entitled to any more advantages than having my money up-front! That is quite enough for me.

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But--for sake of argument, let's say you do get a bad buyer who says the item has not arrived or is not as advertised. Their claim could be either true or false, but aren't sellers able to protect themselves in these situations with insurance, tracking and a fair return policy?

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Tracking helps sellers with non-delivery accusations. About once each week I have a buyer (scammer) tell me that he/she never received an item. I direct the scammer to the tracking information showing that the item was delivered and I normally never hear another word from them. On rare occasion, I'll get a response which says something to the effect of, "I found it. It was hidden on my porch."

I don't believe in returns (unless I make a mistake and I'm at fault). I make my listings VERY clear and I'm not interested in taking losses on ebay fees and my initial shipping costs, just so a customer can "sample" my products and decide whether or not he wants them. It's easy to state in your listing that returns will be net of initial shipping costs and a xx% adminstrative fee; however, when push comes to shove, customers whine about that and file Paypal disputes to get the 100% refund. Paypal will give it to them every time.

Insurance, tracking, and a "fair return policy" do not protect sellers against "not as advertised" disputes. NOTHING protects a seller against those disputes. You have NO CLUE how common it is for a customer to intentionally destroy an item, just so Paypal will provide a refund. It gets even worse than that though... I once sold a brand new very expensive razor (sealed packaging). The customer filed a Paypal dispute, claiming I mailed him an old used razor. Paypal sided with the buyer and agreed to refund 100% of his payment if he provided proof that he returned the razor to me. He sent me the original box that I sent him, but opened up and the brand new razor was replaced with an old, used hair-filled cheap electric razor. I lost my ebay fees, I lost the cost to ship to him, I lost the product, and I lost a lot of time having to respond to emails from Paypal. This is not the only time a customer swapped out my item for another one...just the grossest example. I've also have MANY instances where a customer removes a single part from something I'm selling (apparently to replace one that he's lost or broken from his own product). They file claims with Paypal that I shipped an incomplete item. Paypal always sides with the buyer. Sometimes they make the buyers send back the original (but now incomplete) item before they refund the payment. Other times (when the transaction value is under a certain threshold), they just make the refund. In those instances, I lose both the product and the payment.

So please let me know exactly how insurance, tracking, and a fair return policy protect me from the multitude of scammers out there? I'd love for you to enlighten me, because it'll sure save me from a lot of future losses.

Mahgobbi-
I don't want to trivialize whatever issues you have as a seller. Then again, speaking as a frequent buyer I don't need to understand your particular challenges. I simply disagree with any seller setting the tone for a transaction that strikes this ebay buyer as unbalanced, and feedback in particular. I've given ample reasons to support my particular take on this matter--which is my opinion.

As I have stated hundreds of times, the transaction is not complete until I know that the buyer is satisfied. When feedback is left upon receipt of payment (which we used to do), we received two undeserved negatives because the buyers didn't want to take the time to contact us. We have never and will never withhold feedback for extortion purposes. Until the customer lets me know he/she is satisfied, the transaction is simply not finished. This notification can take the form of an email and I will then leave positive feedback. As a buyer, I fully agree with this policy and leave feedback immediately upon receiving an item.

I do resent being called "scum" because of this practice. I have never dealt anything but 100% honestly and have always offered a full money-back return policy with no questions asked. Usually, I also refund the return shipping unless the return request is made well beyond what would be considered reasonable. We also have only had 5 returns in the last 6 years, so I must be doing something right.

Auldfartte, I wish you would reconsider your generalization. Not every ebay seller who doesn't leave feedback upon receipt of payment is doing it for an underhanded reason.

I have had sellers spam me and begging me to leave feedback. I never did because everyday, several times a day they kept bugging me about it.

dcarver - Please explain how the new policy encourages buyer to pay quicker. I feel it is just the opposite...buyers who want to pay slower or not at all can now do so without fear of receiving negative feedback.

Metalman - As you've stated, good buyers will have problems. Unfortunately, they are the only ones who will suffer. Bad buyers already have bad (or at least questionable) feedback. Perhaps this new system will make their bad feedback look even worse, but all they'll have to do is set up new accounts and start from scratch. They won't disappear completely. In the end, only the good sellers are negatively affected by the new policies.

Mahgobbi,

Sellers like yourself who to quote you "...If I am left a neutral, negative is normally returned and I always have some basis for it other than just making it look retaliatory." are the very reason ebay have introduced this move.

You have brought it upon yourselves. There can be no other reason for what you have done other than retaliation. If there were other reasons then you would leave as many negative feedbacks for those who leave you a positive as you do for those that leave you a negative. And I bet you a pound to a pinch of salt you don't!

It is not acceptable to leave a negative if the buyer has done nothing wrong. And in my opinion it is not acceptable to wait for the buyers feedback before leaving yours. If a buyer completes their part of the transaction in a timely manner that is when you should rate their half of the transaction. If goods are then below par or the shipping is exorbitant or the service is extremely slow, or badly packaged etc etc and a buyer leaves negative feedback that does not give a seller the right to leave them a negative as the buyer has still done nothing wrong. They are simply, honestly, rating the sellers half of the transaction.

Sellers can only complain about one thing a buyer does and that is not paying. Once they have done that they can do no more. If the buyer is a crook who claims they did not receive their goods and tries to claim a refund, then as a seller you provide the proof of posting and prove them a liar. Leaving them negative feedback at that point is irrelevant. If you take a long look at negative feedback left by sellers you will see it is 99% retaliatory. Which is why ebay have made this move.

I buy and sell, and I use 2 accounts. I can see both sides but still cannot see the point in leaving a buyer a negative.

What ebay should have done is hidden feedback until both parties had completed it. Then both parties would be honest.

A high percentage of sellers try to cheat buyers in some small way, whether its with fake or shoddy goods or overpriced shipping, and buyers have to be careful with every transaction not to get caught out. Loads of people are turning away from ebay because of disreputable sellers so ebay has to do something. I have not heard of any sellers turning away because of getting ripped off by buyers.

As the saying goes "Caveat emptor" I don't recall any saying about seller beware! There must be a very good reason for that.

Only my opinion but I agree with ebay. I have had more problems as a buyer than as a seller.