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 Replies: 10 / Views: 2,237 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
684 Posts |
Got this a couple years ago, slabbed XF details hairlines. On the sage advice found somewhere on this board, I stuck it in an old blue paper coin holder in a south facing window and kind of forgot about it. 15 months later...WOW. Iridescent peripheral toning and no hairlines. The lines were visible to the naked eye earlier, no more, not even under stereo microscope. Is this doctoring?   |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
684 Posts |
Oh yeah I cracked it before putting it in the blue paper holder.
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New Member
United States
47 Posts |
Yeah but I don't think you violated the Hippocratic oath...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5239 Posts |
Doctor, it was spontaneous remission of the disease.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
The appearance of the coin looks good to me even if this may qualify as doctoring.
I personally just leave my coins out on a tray on a windowsill and let nature do the work. Have never heard of blue paper toning. Only of taco bell napkin toning.
BTW, whatever is on that blue paper I would hate to lick an envelope made from it.
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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
 United States
12269 Posts |
Coins can't heal! So, if there were hairlines / light scratches on the coin 15 months ago - they are still there.
The toning has covered over the metal within the hairlines and thus caused it to be less reflective/visible. But, if you were to submit the coin to a reputable grading service, the hairlines would almost certainly be detected and the grade would suffer as a result.
I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm for the coin (It's a nice one!), just hoping to educate!
Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
05/29/2016 2:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
684 Posts |
Commems, I totally agree if there are scratches or hairlines a little color would not fill them. A friend who saw the "before" coin also studied the "after" coin and could not find a trace of surface problems.
Is it possible that the hairlines penetrated only the surface patina and not the metal of the coin?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The coin that started this thread HAS NO APPRECIABLE ORIGINAL SURFACES in my opinion. Original surfaces were always the basis of grading used in the past. Coins in Mint State had to have intact surfaces. AU had to have 95% of original surfaces and EF as little as 60%. VF coins had less than half of the surfaces intact and most of those were in protected areas. The coin here has substantial wear from circulation with deep wear on high points. Since it will not get an MS or AU grade; and since it should in my opinion not get an EF grade, hairlines are nothing that should enter into grading. The reason - the coin has been worn extensively.
Hairlines are in my opinion often an excuse not to grade coins and thereby LOWER the population of encapsulated coins. I think it is intentional and meant to drive prices UP. Hairlines can occur naturally and often do on older coins. At times, strawlines scratches on the die surface caused by cleaning the die are confused with hairlines and are rejected by TPGs. Hairlines can be caused by circulation or old cleanings. When I was young I heard stories of old timers who cleaned their coins because they didn't want to carry dirty coins with them. If cleaning was done while a coin was in circulation or if a coin was a lucky piece why should it not be graded.
Conversely, if a coin is allowed to tone naturally or otherwise - I see nothing wrong with submitting it for grading. Why? Because the TPGs are playing games and we might as well play too. TPGs typically spend seconds on grading and if they happen to miss toned hairlines - it is because of their haste.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Do you have the BEFORE pics?! You did help it a bit by providing the right conditions... but even if you use Miracle-Gro, nature is still doing its thing, no? Either way, definitely decent-looking, even if as I suspect the hairlines may possibly show with some in-hand rotation to someone with good eyes (there looks to some up-and-down wiping evidence in the field right of the pillar). Toning is a tad dark but not egregiously artificial-looking. I do agree, though (maybe not w/the same exact underlying points as Bob, but same conclusion) that it's not quite XF-level detail. Aside from ANACS, PCGS/NGC stick with base grading tiers for "Details"-graded pieces - just VF, no plus or 25 or 30, etc. I'd call this 30 or 35 details. Quote:
Have never heard of blue paper toning. Only of taco bell napkin toning. I'm thinking Westwood probably means an old 70s-era 2x2 blue kraft envelope... one that SMELLS like it should make the coin tone. |
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New Member
United States
2 Posts |
Hi Westwood Arms, that volcano peso is very nice. *** Edited by Staff - Please review the rules that you agreed to when you registered. ***David |
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Moderator
United States
188213 Posts |
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Replies: 10 / Views: 2,237 |
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Posted 05/27/2016 9:35 pm
to the Community, Chile1974!
