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Replies: 53 / Views: 6,952 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
@ Coinplus Your question might best be asked of RCM. But just a comment, RCM has never guaranteed redemption of XforX. What they've stated:  Particularly when it pertains to financial affairs, quite some time ago I learned the importance of reading the fine print, not making assumptions and mostly that anonymous opinions on the Internet are worthless. Life poses many hassles that are entirely out of one's control. So for me, if the inabilabilty to easily obtain face value of XforX in the future would be a significant concern, I'd cash them in now to eliminate the possibility of it causing me stress in the future.....sort of like sweeping the road clean, up ahead...
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
While valid, that blurb from the Mint website predates x for x coins which were definitely sold as currency exchange with all that it implies. It's interesting to note just how aggressively the Mint pitched the coins in the beginning.  Though this discussion has been beaten to death a dozen times here, this is still the best (and possibly prophetic) article I've seen on the topic of NCLT, legal tender and where x for x coins are going. http://canadiancoinnews.com/legal-t...ys-be-spent/Totally agree wildflowerAB about internet opinions. It's truly amazing how many lawyers there are surfing coin forums. That said, with $200M involved and the rhetoric put out by the Mint in selling these coins, you can almost bet Siskinds et al are already prepping the class action suit. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
On the topic of Class Action Lawsuits - although popular in the US where anyone can file one, including the guy from NY who began the Coinstar lawsuit by claiming he was shortchanged by $1.51, the laws in Canada are totally different. I challenge anyone in Canada to go talk to a lawyer and put forth the possibility of a class action lawsuit because someone has ripped you off $1.51. Aside from that, the sort if folks who might be saving XforX as an emergency cash stash are the ones who can not afford to wait years for a refund even if a class action lawsuit was filed. The threat of a class action lawsuit to a Crown Corp is about as meaningless as a mosquito on a horse. So what, if it came to pass and RCM lost years down the road they are forced to redeem coins they previously sold and so the federal govt hands over a pile of cash because there's no way a Crown Corp can file bankruptcy unless our entire country is also bankrupt. And how would this money be raised? Taxes of course, that ought to bide well with the public of which 99% probably never heard of XforX, in addition to the increasingly common masses of people who believe that anyone who has enough money at the end of the month to save (or waste on something so stupid as collector coins) must be wealthy... I am by no means defending RCM but holding out only because people might be led to believe a class action lawsuit will offer some sort of future protection - totally unrealistic in my opinion.
Edited by wildflowerAB 06/03/2016 11:04 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Anyone following along who's not familiar with events that recently occurred in England, the legal definition of "Legal Tender" was amended to only apply to payment to the Courts. Banks or businesses there are no longer legally obligated to accept legal tender in any amount and The Royal Mint apparently specifically directed them not to accept XforX. As a British Commonweath country, Canada's legal system holds far more similarities to the UK than the US. The notion of filing a class action lawsuit against the Canadian Government over new or amended legislation, I say good luck because when we elect governments we've granted them the legal right to pass legislation. The change in the UK is only an example of what's possible that could occur here in the future and I've notice no mention of a class action lawsuit happening across the pond.... 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3690 Posts |
LL.B? I mentioned class action mostly as a joke because some other frequent posters say it over and over (notice the winkie?). Maybe it was just for me because of my past life in the industry. lol. Quote:I am by no means defending RCM but holding out only because people might be led to believe a class action lawsuit will offer some sort of future protection - totally unrealistic in my opinion. Agreed.
Edited by CC-Ottawa 06/03/2016 12:24 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The good and bad with class actions if approved evens out the judicial system for someone being overcharged the 5.00 a month in unjust interest payment that CIBC VISA calculated for years, in this case everyone with a CIBC visa got a payment of course the lawyers made their 33%. If you don't believe how these coins were marketed as a risk free exchange and process, just cash them in now. There are many examples of little guys being wronged by large companies and this type of lawsuit brings some justice and a change to a unfair business practise, it's amazing what a great lawyer can achieve. In this case even with the redeeming hurting the RCM's bottom line, they are still flogging these type of coins as no risk and constantly makes up most of the top 10 sellers.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
I mentioned class action mostly as a joke because some other frequent posters say it over and over (notice the winkie?). Maybe it was just for me because of my past life in the industry. lol.
Missed it. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
This is a little off topic but might affect a lot of Canadians and US home owners in homes built around 2005 or so with Kitec plastic pipes there is a over 2 billion class action settlement for it's replacement, just another important example how one lead plaintif helps others.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
John, how about an example of a Class Action Lawsuit EVER filed against a Canadian Crown Corporation?
Canada Post would be a good example - lost mail, poor service, removal of home delivery, price gouging(cost)....surely some smart lawyer could have figured out an injustice by now?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
How about Native residential schools, versus Canada
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1027 Posts |
@john100
Native Residential Schools is in a totally different category. I cannot remember any class action lawsuit filed against any government crown corporation when it comes to "Money" matters. If anyone reading this topic has, I really hope you post it for all of us to read.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Agree with New1954, compensation for past social injustices have absolutely no connection to a Crown Corporation for alleged violation of consumer protection laws pertaining to "false or misleading advertising" of collector coins, whereby a fantasy class action law suit could at best merely involve a refund of the original purchase. And on the topic of "no risk" allegations, John how about you lead a class action lawsuit against RCM for ALL NCLT that has ever dropped in value from issue price? I'll sign up! Because all of their advertising mentions "no risk" and a buyer might only notice the two words and not read further to notice that RCM always pumps "no risk" but it pertains to their 30-day no-questions-asked quarantee. Therefore buyers might be led to believe all NCLT is "no risk" at losing money. Where's that class action lawsuit?
Edited by wildflowerAB 06/04/2016 11:16 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The regular NCLT coins silver has to tank below 20.00 before some one even think of redeeming, if you don't agree the x for x coins were marketed as risk free exchanges, you just have a different opinion on the RCM's marketing, all I'm saying is if the RCM follows the UK model of no redemption due to the amounts sold and other reason some smart lawyers will want 1/3 of the 200 million or so sold already. The Native school class was against Canada, no one is above the law, as for last comment the RCM has a 30 day return policy, there's no inferring of future value on regular NCLT
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:The regular NCLT coins silver has to tank below 20.00 before some one even think of redeeming, if you don't agree the x for x coins were marketed as risk free exchanges, you just have a different opinion on the RCM's marketing, all I'm saying is if the RCM follows the UK model of no redemption due to the amounts sold and other reason some smart lawyers will want 1/3 of the 200 million or so sold already...... The UK has no smart lawyers?
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Valued Member
Canada
393 Posts |
Quote: That is disappointing, but $8,000,000 is a lot of coins being returned. Quote: It's interesting to note just how aggressively the Mint pitched the coins in the beginning.
I love the last line for the first release which doesn't seem to have been repeated for later issues. Definitely implies a reciprocal agreement and equality with Canadian Currency. Not everyone buying the X for X coins however, is playing games trying to up their status or using the purchases to maintain their current one. I like most collectors bought a $200 for $200 when they first came out. Afterwards reality set in and I realized it was not a good fit with my collection and far too expensive a series (albeit very nice designs) to hang on to. Guessing this has and will be repeated many times. Seems the honeymoon is over. I traded mine towards a 2015 Proof Set in Halifax and will probably do the same with a few of the $100 for $100 coins. Hopefully recent events won't have any impact at the Ottawa RCNA Convention RCM Booth or Mint Boutique next month. I'm only a few purchases away from platinum status but if I buy what I want now, I won't have anything to redeem the X for X coins on. Considering that next year is Canada's 150th, it would be nice to have platinum status and extra notice to take advantage of what is sure to be a record year for NCLT coins.
Edited by Proof Nut 06/05/2016 09:40 am
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Replies: 53 / Views: 6,952 |