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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,920 |
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Valued Member
United States
282 Posts |
This has been happening quite often to me lately when submitting an offer for a "Best Offer" listing and it is irritating to me as someone who trades in securities as well as collects coins.
I send what I believe to be a fair offer at market price based on all available information and the response I receive is "I paid more", "My cost is higher", "I have more than that into this coin", or similar responses.
Now I have no problems with a seller wanting to make a profit but what does cost have to do with it? Imagine a market maker on NASDAQ refusing to sell stocks below cost - essentially ignoring the current market. I have literally received responses 20% - 30% above current market price with the reason being that is what the seller paid.
Market price is market price regardless of when the item was purchased or how much was paid for it. Cost should never factor into the equation in a fair, open (relatively speaking) market.
Just my rant. I would love to hear others' opinions.
Isn't there a song: "What's cost got to do with it....." Edited by syeb
06/29/2016 3:23 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2403 Posts |
I was in a pawn shop here in Montana a while ago and was looking at some silver bullion coins nothing special just common date ASEs and some 1oz-10oz private minted bullion coins. I asked them what they wanted for them and they quoted me an outrageous price. When I asked them why the price was so high and they told me it was because they bought them years ago when silver prices were higher and didn't want to lose money on them. Well those coins are still there and still way over priced. So they are losing money on them anyways by them taking up valuable display space that could be displaying stuff that will sell.  Doesn't make cense to me. |
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Valued Member
United States
51 Posts |
I've been buying and selling on ebay for years, and quickly learned that there is a wide range of expertise in that community. (Wide range of honesty too, but that's a different topic.) There are people who don't know what they have and ask too little for it, and people who have wildly inflated ideas of what their stuff is worth, and everything in between. This is also true of buyers, who will sometimes pay way too much for something if they really want it. That can translate into market value not being as important to some buyers as it would be to others (more savvy ones). In other words, these people who are driving you nuts will sometimes get their asking price. Usually sellers will try to get top dollar at first, or at least try to avoid taking a loss. If they don't get any nibbles, then they have to decide whether they want to lower their asking price (or what they're wiling to accept in the way of an offer), or if they'd rather hang onto what they have for the time being. The value of collectibles fluctuate pretty significantly. Of course, many items are as likely to go down as to go up, so it's always a crap shoot. |
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Valued Member
 United States
282 Posts |
Quote:
In other words, these people who are driving you nuts will sometimes get their asking price. You know something I think you're right. Just yesterday I received a "Sorry you missed it" email for a coin that actually sold for $475 when two virtually identical coins of the same year, rarity, TPG, grade, went for $335-$360 two days ago on ebay and a few more in the last HA auction. Edited by syeb
06/29/2016 4:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
My previous position was at a medical devices factory in China. We needed semi-truck loads of plastic raw materials for the injection machines pretty regularly. When oil prices dropped, and the market rate of the plastic raw material followed, our local distributors literally stopped selling and would lock up their warehouses for weeks at a time until market prices rose again to their liking. To them, it was cheaper to sell nothing and only pay storage costs than to sell at a loss.
On coins, I too recently made an offer on a group of listings the seller had based on published values and was turned down because he had sourced them for over published retail values. It's a bummer as these would have gone great in the collection. But they are his coins and he can do as he pleases. He's not obligated to sell them.
Edited by Collects82
06/29/2016 4:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
I think if you look at something like the NASDAQ vs. the coin market, there are a couple of big differences. One, the NASDAQ is a very liquid market, with millions of buyers and sellers all setting prices nearly instantly as stocks are traded. Two, a share of a particular company offered on the NASDAQ exchange is basically a commodity item - there is no difference between one share of a company and another. With the coin market, each coin is at least somewhat unique and there are fewer buyers to set the price. Sellers are afraid of auctions because they might get killed OR as you said, they have 'X' in a particular coin and won't take a loss despite the current market pricing. I believe that is called "anchoring" if you follow behavioral psychology. That said, I do agree with you that many sellers over price their coins; 30-40% over retail seems commonplace, especially as you get into more difficult coins. I do have some luck with shows, where you can do a little face to face negotiation, as well as auction sites such as Great Collections, Heritage or ebay - when items are available at least. Many times it's "Buy it Now" at some inflated price where it will never sell. Never, ever as Taylor Swift says. Edited by KenKat
06/29/2016 5:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
@syeb, I couldn't agree with you more. That is a pet peeve of mine, people trying to sell above market value. Of course they are free to try, and people are free to overpay. I also understand that the coin market is not exactly like the stock market, given that every coin is unique to some extent, but especially for US coins there is a fairly accurate market value. I find that even a lot of dealers in shows just sit on overpriced product for months or years at a time, rather than be pragmatic like retailers who discount their unsold items. I think that dealers/ sellers who take a more business-like approach and discount old or over-priced stock (even if sold at a loss) will do better in the long run. I for one don't bother with people who consistently over-price. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Agree, but a lot of over-priced stuff sells on the Bay every day, and some people will use their re-listing privileges as long as they can hoping for a mark.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
"What I paid for it" also includes shipping and ebay 10% fee plus PayPal's 3% fee. If I paid market value for a $100 coin, I would have to charge about $125 (in reality, a little less) to break even ($12.50 ebay fees, $6 shipping, and $3.75 for PayPal fees.) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
946 Posts |
The "make offer" is one of my favorite parts of ebay actually. Recently I have done real well with the make a offer. Someone had a gold coin listed for 700OBO made a reasonable offer for 450ish and they accepted. A few others like that,sometimes I think they just price the item high,just to get a offer made. Usually works pretty darn good for me,but then there are other times that the price is horrendously high and then they counteract my offer for something 15$ less then the original outrageous price. Doesn't hurt to try though,worse you have to do is read a message from someone. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1699 Posts |
Those sellers are simply holding for the long term gain.  Or it could be a negotiating tactic. That is a great point to bring up though! |
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New Member
United States
21 Posts |
I'm one of the ones that sometimes has to tell people "Sorry, I paid more" OR "Sorry, with ebay Fees, Paypal Fees, Shipping cost(I offer free shipping) and taxes, I can't accept that offer" I honestly try to price my coins to be the cheapest ones on ebay. Unfortunately sometimes a coin doesn't sell right away and the market value goes down from when I originally listed that coin. At that point, I just sit on it and hopefully the market will come back again. I just recently sold a coin I had for 2 years because I just couldn't let it go cheaper or I would have lost money. I ended up making money on it after waiting. I do get your frustration. Just figured I would explain the other end of it. Most of my coins have a BIN or make an offer price. Not to take over your thread, but I hate when someone makes me an offer, I counter offer and then they never respond again. Lets work out a deal. Just because I counter offer, doesn't mean I won't still negotiate with you. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I think what you are describing is an example of loss aversion. People who are loss averse when faced between a choice between a guaranteed loss or a gamble of equal expected value and a possibility of avoiding the loss altogether, more often than not choose the gamble. The sellers may be trying to avoid the guaranteed loss from selling at a fair price and instead chancing it on the possibility that someone will buy it at a break even price.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1839 Posts |
Personally I don't think trading stocks is very much like buying and selling coins at all, unless all you are selling are things like common date Morgans in MS63 to MS65 grades or something along those lines.
As others in this thread have already stated, each coin is unique and you can find huge variances in the sell price of coins in the exact same year/denomination/grade. And as for "what does cost have to do with it", well it has a lot to do with it quite frankly, as does quality. Would you expect to pay the same for a bottle of Coors as you would a bottle of beer from a high end local micro brewer? The micro brewed beer might be double the price, or even more. They're both beers, so why aren't they the same price? Well quality and the cost to produce are why.
I think when a seller says something like "I have too much into this coin to sell at the price you're offering" what they might really be saying is "I paid more than market price for this coin because I feel it's of higher quality or perhaps has much higher eye appeal than coins of the same kind and grade, and therefore I'm asking a price that is in line with that higher quality/higher eye appeal".
Now, I'll admit that many times sellers are asking what is probably too much for a coin that is just average for the grade and that's a mistake on their part in my opinion. Also, not willing to sell a coin at a loss no matter what is also a mistake in my view as cash flow is important to any business and sitting on a coin for a long period of time because you can't bare the thought of selling it for a loss is just a bad business decision in my view. At some point if a coin isn't selling at the asking price, a wise seller will start to discount the coin to move "bad money" for "good money" and put the proceeds into inventory that will move. I don't think a lot of coin sellers are that good at understanding the down side of sitting on inventory for an extended amount of time. There is a cost to doing that just like there is a cost to all the other aspects of running a business.
But I digress, the main point I wanted to make is that in many situations it's perfectly reasonable to be asking a price that is above what we like to call "market price" and yes, what you paid for the coin as a seller has a lot to do with the price you plan to sell it for. I for one am glad the the coin market, for the most part, is not like trading stocks.
Edited by Tbone
07/03/2016 01:56 am
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Valued Member
United States
441 Posts |
Quote:
Imagine a market maker on NASDAQ refusing to sell stocks below cost - essentially ignoring the current market. Yes an ebay seller doing this would be deluding himself and in the *long*-term be losing money, if he were a bullion dealer. The rare and collectible coin market, however, has only one market maker: DEMAND. Quote:
In other words, these people who are driving you nuts will sometimes get their asking price. Therefore, what the buyers are paying for collectible coins (regardless of published lists of "suggested" prices) will ultimately determine Market Price. But, however one defines a Market Price for a given commodity, the fact still stands: Quote:
Market price is market price regardless of when the item was purchased or how much was paid for it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
I know what you mean. Fortunately, most of my coins I can sell at "market value." But, I do have a couple that I paid too much for, and they fall into the dreaded category of, "need to get more than I paid." Maybe if I was strapped for cash I'd let them go, but....
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,920 |
Posted 06/29/2016 4:05 pm
