PCGS & NGC Authenticity Guarantee Does Not Cover Clerical Errors

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 4 / Views: 2,611
stoneroutes New Member United Kingdom 8 Posts	Posted 07/11/2016 7:26 pm I started to notice that many Tibetan coins "guaranteed" by PCGC and NGC were mislabelled by them. At first I thought these, some of which were offered by reputed auction houses, were clever fakes of their slabs. However checking the websites and photos using their identification numbers it became clear that the coins were indeed from these companies. Then I discovered the let out clause for "mechanical" or "clerical" errors which means the GUARANTEE DOES NOT APPLY e.g. " The NGC Guarantee does not apply when NGC determines, in its sole reasonable discretion, that a clerical error has resulted in the Coin having an incorrect grade or description" So on some particularly blatant lots (of CD1346(1792) KONG-PAR TANGKA C-60.1) I contacted both the auction house and NGC with the email below well before the auction. It was important because NGC has "guaranteed" only 13 of these coins, all of them in this auction. Only one was identified correctly the others being much common coins. However they chose not to reply, presumably relying on this clause in case of complaint from the buyer. PCGS has only one which listed in their population report, probably correct, although I have seen other Tibetan coins mislabelled by them. SO YOU CANNOT RELY ON PCGS/NGC GUARANTEES ON THE IDENTITY OF COINS, even of those in reputable auction houses. OR of course their population reports detailed email sent on 19 November: Dear Sir in the upcoming auction by Heritage: 2015 December 11 - 12 World & Ancient Coins Signature Auction #3043,there are 5 lots (2436-2440) certified by NGC containing 13 as being the rare CD1347 Kongpar Tangka. POP REPORT - ALL 13. Only one has that date Most are the common 1346 C60,3 3708121-388 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 AU this is CD 1346 C60.3 3708121-390 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 AU55. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-389 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 AU53. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-381 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 XF45. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-102 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 XF40. this is CD1346 C60.1 3708121-383 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 AU50. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-382 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 XF40. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-380 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 VF35. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-385 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 VF30. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-387 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 AU50. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-114 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 VF35. CORRECT 3708121-384 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 VF30. this is CD1346 C60.3 3708121-386 CD1347(1793) TIBET KONG-PAR C-60.1 VF30. this is CD1346 C60.3 regards Report this Post to the Staff

Pertinax Pillar of the Community United Kingdom 2133 Posts	Posted 07/12/2016 5:07 pm Surely grading companies must check for for "mechanical" or "clerical" errors before slabbing or sending coins back. Otherwise, their grading has no value if you can't rely 100% on it. Report this Post to the Staff
oriole Pillar of the Community Canada 5239 Posts	Posted 07/12/2016 5:15 pm I have a few questions, and perhaps someone can clarify: If you relied on the accuracy of the slab, and as a result over-paid, then are you out of luck if it is declared a "mechanical or clerical error"? If there is an error of this sort, will they reslab it for free, presumably correctly this time? Does anyone have any idea what the error rate is for these big TPG companies? Report this Post to the Staff
stoneroutes New Member United Kingdom 8 Posts	Posted 07/12/2016 6:12 pm The problem is mostly confirmed to world coins either undated or with dates in local calendar systems. (although I note an earlier post on his forum shows a 74-S Ike be certified as a 76-S ). It is further more likely in coins that a have a large number of die varieties - such as the Tibetan Tangka - where differences in the date and die, which are hand carved, are relatively minor. Sure you can send it back and have it re-slabed but in the case I highlighted you would change a very scarce coin into a very common one. The correct number of these coins authenticated should be two, one each for PCGS and NGC both in VF, but the population report for NGC is misleading in the extreme, with 12 common coins mislabelled up to AU55. Their terms make it clear that it is BUYER BEWARE but surely when the mistakes are bought to their attention they should at least amend their population report , so that anyone who has such a coin and wants it slabbed should know how many are correctly slabbed? Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 07/12/2016 7:14 pm That probably would not be considered a clerical or mechanical error, they are simply misattributed. The problem is NGC DOES NOT guarantee attributions, Says so right in their guarantee. PCGS on the other hand does guarantee attributions (this is a recent change for them), but doesn't do a real good job grading world coins. For Tibetian coins I wouldn't trust either company. I have said for years NEVER trust attributions from either company. You MUST confirm the attributions yourself. They just make way too many errors. Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 4 / Views: 2,611

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: General Numismatic Forums Forum: Third Party Coin Grading (TPG): PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, ETC.

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

View Last 100 New Topics

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.22 seconds to rattle this change.