Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

1937 Matte Specimen Dollar. Really A Sp?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 25 / Views: 5,591Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  4:49 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Won this coin from the last Torex. The toning is wild and caught my attention, which is why I wanted it. It is graded SP64 from PCGS. It's in an old PCGS holder (the green labelled one).

My one concern from the beginning was that the coin looked to have a weakly struck rim on the obverse. Not the type of strike you'd see on a typical specimen... What are your thoughts?




1937-Matte-Specimen-Dollar.-Really-A-Sp?

1937-Matte-Specimen-Dollar.-Really-A-Sp?

1937-Matte-Specimen-Dollar.-Really-A-Sp?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2016  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sure looks like a specimen reverse. The matte 1937 dollars show some of the same obverse edge issues as the business strikes.

I've seen 1937 matte dollars where you ask yourself why would I even bother buying this over a ms 65 issue.

Nice case toning consistent for the issue. maybe send it to ICCS to cross grade it if you're uncomfortable. I'm quite confident it is sp because of the sharpness of the reverse, and kings bust lacks die burn, has very sharp ear etc, but that edge, I see why you ask, not what one would expect on a specimen. But some are like that though not to that degree. Maybe you got a mule

These striking problems don't ever seem to appear on the mirror issues, they seem to always be sharp, don't know why, it maybe the planchet.

Edited by Alan
07/14/2016 12:18 am
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Alan! I will send it to ICCS next time I send a batch. The reverse does really look like a specimen. Even more of a reason why the obverse was confusing me. Oh well, it might be something with the planchet, like you said
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's one lovely coin, regardless. The natural toning, absolutely perfect to accentuate the features. An artist couldn't have done better.
Pillar of the Community
doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion, PCGS and NGC, in the earlier years of their grading were all over the map with their SP and PL gradings.

Only ICCS is good for me and even they have on occassion, got one wrong.
Valued Member
priorpence's Avatar
Canada
148 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add priorpence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for sharing Paulsz. That is the nicest looking reverse of a voyageur silver dollar I have ever seen. Usually the obverse tones better....maybe the reverse side was up in the specimen case. Can't help with your question just wanted to give kudos to ya.
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/14/2016  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the compliments :)

De59, I was always told PCGS was the one who could distinguish specimen strikes from business ones. But yes, the older holder had me concerned
Moderator
Learn More...
SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10456 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  08:00 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the next major coin show - show it to Sandy Campbell. He has handled a lot of specimen strikes over the years, and he could walk you through the coin...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will definitely show Sandy at the Toronto expo this fall
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  10:32 am  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse certainly has the look of a Specimen Strike. The obverse , especially the rims are more in line with a circulation strike. Would certainly get an opinion from ICCS in the form of a cross grade.
The study of dollars in the Canadian Series needs lots of research. The RCM used Specimen dies to strike dollars for circulation in many years , 1937 , 1939 and 1947 P7 especially come to mind. Also later Elizabeth II issues show , for the lack of a better word Hybrid finishes. One side , clearly PL in finish and the other a rather pedestrian circulation finish. 1958 comes to mind.
Die steel was expensive and the RCM would strike coins from die pairs way past their normal usage.
Very interesting coin , thanks for sharing with us.
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/15/2016  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see, Pacificoin. Never knew they used specimen dies for circulation after they had gotten beat up. That's pretty cool! You learn something new every day
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Pacificoin's Avatar
Canada
5394 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  01:20 am  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Paulsz there are a couple of interesting books on Canadian Silver Dollars if you can find them. Both are out of print but can sometimes be found on the net or in an LCS . One is by Starr Gilmore and the other by Stephen Dushnick.
Both offer interesting insights , facts and figures on the Canadian Silver Dollar Series.
Edited by Pacificoin
07/16/2016 3:44 pm
Pillar of the Community
Paulsz's Avatar
Canada
2187 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paulsz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found Starr Gilmore's book online. To anyone interested, you just Google Starr Gilmore silver Canadian dollars and you will find the link. Will start reading it soon!
Pillar of the Community
Alexer's Avatar
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  4:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The reverse certainly has the look of a Specimen Strike. The obverse , especially the rims are more in line with a circulation strike.

I agree with Pacificoin for 2 reasons firstly because thats what it looks like, and secondly because I've read about using SP die's for circulation strikes before.
I took a pretty good look around and found one for sure, perhaps two, that are the same as yours in TPG bags marked SP.
Check the reeding it should either stand out from a circulation strike or match an SP strike. Usually much more pronounced and clear and high.
Nice looking coin though no matter what.
Just my opinion.

spell edit
Edited by Alexer
07/16/2016 10:52 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2016  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

I found Starr Gilmore's book online. To anyone interested, you just Google Starr Gilmore silver Canadian dollars and you will find the link. Will start reading it soon!


Found it as well....Thank you!
Valued Member
pauliswilling's Avatar
108 Posts
  Previous TopicReplies: 25 / Views: 5,591Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.33 seconds to rattle this change. Forums