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 Replies: 28 / Views: 3,737 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
When in 1857 the U.S. started striking large quantities of a smaller cent, the government adopted policies intended to hasten the transition. These included outright witdrawing of the older coins, as well as extending favorable terms for their redemption. The large cent was unpopular in commerce, anyway, nor were they actually legal tender, so these measures were effective in achieving a rapid changeover.
My questions are whether in 1920, when Canada traveled down the same road, what was the status of the existing large cents deemed to be, and did the authorities also take affirmative steps to assure that they would be quickly supplanted by the new smaller version?
My apologies in advance if this has been addressed before here.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
07/19/2016 9:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
710 Posts |
The Canadian large cents stayed in circulation until the 1930s.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
The Canadian large cents stayed in circulation until the 1930s. Which raises other questions. Was there no preference for one or the other size during that period of co-circultion? Or did Gresham's law show itself in the hoarding of the larger, even though they were technically still usable at face value? Also, then in the 1930's did the official stance vis-a-vis the older coinage change? What took the large cent out of use at that point? Colligo ergo sum
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Valued Member
Canada
257 Posts |
All great questions by Cuss
Very interested to hear if anyone knows!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5587 Posts |
My understanding was that they became worth more for melt than it cost to produce new small cents and were recalled and melted. Even though Canada became a separate country in 1867, they retain many English principles, let along the government. In England, their cent, half-cent and farthing were actually struck in a fineness and size that made them worth what was in the metal until the end of the 18th century .. look at what happened between 1797 and 1804 or 1810. countries suck up all the old coinage if it's worth more as scrap than circulating value. Same thing happened in 1967 with silver denominations .. profit profit profit for the mint and treasury.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
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My understanding was that they became worth more for melt than it cost to produce new small cents and were recalled and melted. What killed the large cent in the U.S. in the 1850's is precisely the sort of thing you're alluding to - an issue of seignorage (the difference between the cost of material and labor to produce a coin and its face value), which had dipped into the red. When the worth of an already produced coin's material alone exceeds its face value, well, then it's really doomed. I'm somewhat amazed that the Canadian large cent remained viable for over a half century after the U.S. version had to be abandoned. Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
07/19/2016 9:16 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1046 Posts |
i`ve been checking my bible 1920 cdn lg cent 6,500,0000 + 1920 cdn sm cent 15,500,000 + us Wheat pennies 400,000,000 http://www.coinvalues.com/wheat-pennies/1920canada 22,000,000 usoa 400,000,000 math is not my subject |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
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canada 22,000,000
usoa 400,000,000 I actually have U.S. production for that year approaching 406 million. The population of the U.S. in 1920 was just over 106 million. The population of Canada was around 8¾ million. So a more useful comparison is that the U.S. produced about 3¾ one cent coins per capita, Canada roughly 2½. I'm not sure what the disparity in the need for the most minor coinage for that single year signifies, however. Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
Lucky Cuss, in Canada we have a significant amount of natural resources including copper and Nickel, we were still minting copper coinage until 1996, were in the USA you took this out in 1982. Our nickel was for the most part 100% nickel from 1922 until 1981 so the cost was maybe not as relevant as for other countries.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Here in Arizona there are enormous deposits of copper. Some has not yet been mined, and many existing operations are limping along at well below their capacity to produce. The economics and politics behind this situation are complicated, but it certainly is not a matter of there not being as much as the U.S. Mint could care to purchase.
I mentioned the concept of seignorage earlier. In 2014, even with our cents being now composed of a zinc core merely plated with copper, plus lowered metal prices and a converted effort to eliminate unnecessary overhead, the cost of producing each, while reduced, was still 1.66¢. That is almost precisely the same cost to face value ratio that applied to the Canadian cent when it was eliminated in 2012.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
07/21/2016 11:19 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts |
This is a very interesting discussion. The title had me worried! However, after reading responses I relaxed some. I can bare to think of the large cent being melted! I hope there will be more responses to these interesting questions.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
Are these large cents collectable in poor condition?I've got a bunch that I haven't tried to get rid of yet and was wondering if I should even bother.
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Valued Member
Canada
257 Posts |
If they're in really rough shape it's hard to sell anything later than 1900 in large cents
I'm sure you can sell them to someone as a lot for the right price.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1571 Posts |
I guess my next question is....
What do large cents in rough shape sell for individually? I've got 50-60 cents pre-1900 cents but they don't really go with my current collection.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
It will largely depend on year/variety, if they are common vickies in rough shape, maybe a couple bucks each.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,737 |
Posted 07/19/2016 7:42 pm
