Why So Many Debbie Downers In The Cad NCLT Sub-Forum?

Excellent point!

My comment about NCLT being an investment, I'll explain. The investment industry in Canada is heavily regulated in order to protect people from taking undue risk especially if they don't have adequate knowledge or a financial cushion to fall back on. It's the responsibility of the selling company to ensure the customer understands they might lose money. If they don't do a thorough job (referred to as Know Your Client) the investment company can be liable. But RCM has never claimed to sell anything related to investment products - they only sell collector coins to people who collect coins - therefore they fall outside of that type of consumer protection legislation.

You've mentioned that you spend $10k a year at RCM, far more than the average person spends, so you're definately not a "new" collector. You also have no concern about devaluation. That's fair although I think it's likely that a person who spends $1k a year might be less concerned about the valuation of their collection than if they spent $10k. And you're a valued RCM customer at the highest MC tier so you've reached the point of substantial commitment and loyalty to RCM products.

As a "newcomer", I'm curious why supportive opinions of others have now become important to your continued and substantial collecting endeavours? The reason I ask is because I've had the opposite experience. I've been tempted to buy certain NCLT, read varied comments and as a result held back, later glad I did so.

Not mine either. RCM's revamped MC program has likely attracted more flippers than ever before, for short durations at least. It's regretful when people get hoodwinked into thinking it's an easy way to make money on ebay, however upon their exit it's also a means for genuine collectors to buy past releases at sharp discounts.

When I was more or less a "newcomer", I had a different eye opening experience that somewhat tainted my perception of RCM.

I'd collected decades of proof sets from RCM faithfully each year, not interested in the type of NCLT that was in the past referred to as "giftware". Years and years of RCM catalogues arrived the mail but I always chucked them in the garbage, knowing the proof sets were only released at the beginning of each year.

But at some point I noticed a coin in the catalogue that interested me, don't recall what, so I began searching for it on RCMs website and somehow found the very same item being sold on ebay by many private sellers for more than RCMs issue price. But RCM's site informs me it's sold out. My head is going "what the heck?"

In my naive little world at the time, I hadn't realized RCM, a government entity, knowingly allowed private resellers to liquidate their stock in the same way as say, Ticketmaster. Everyone I know views Ticketmaster with a certain level of distain because of the frustration in trying to buy better seats than in the nosebleed section for a popular concert because often flippers immediately buy up the very best, although Ticketmaster has since taken steps to discourage flipping. But I certainly expected RCM to promote a higher level of fairness than mirroring the practise of Ticketmaster considering the national and historical essence of Canadian coinage.

Furthermore I don't recall if at the time I read a thread about it on this forum, but can you imagine how, as a potential buyer, I'd have felt it I observed a cheering section of "rah, rah, look how high the ebay price is rising!"

There is a difference between bashing someone or a hobby and telling what the reality is.

For instance, of all the 270+ $20 Silver NCLT/Bullion released by the RCM since 1985 only a handful of coins (I counted 30 but I could have missed a couple) that managed to maintain a fair numismatic value. The majority eventually settle down around metal value.

I think most of us will easily agree that personal attacks are uncool. Still, I think it's important to encourage open and honest discourse... few of us want the site to be an echo-chamber.

Quality of (some) RCM releases is absolutely top-notch. Quality of most of their releases is not particularly extraordinary, imho. My criticism primarily comes from a place that would hope to inspire people to: 1) shop smart and 2) RCM to continue to raise the bar.

Some of my biggest gripes have to do not with their designs or even their quality of craftsmanship, but with their questionable sales tactics... a case study:

CASE 1: RCM
2016 Coral Reef coin -- for plebeians (like me), there was never a single moment when we could have obtained this coin directly from the mint. It was "sold-out" before it was "released". And yet, you can still find it, for RCM list price, more than a month later from a number of dealers. (2oz. for $190)

CASE 2: USM
2016 Liberty Medal - was not pre-sold and within 2-3 minutes was sold-out. Literally. Available minutes later in the secondary market, of course, but going for 10-20x the issue price.. again, minutes later. (I believe it was 1oz for ~$45 CAD).

Analysis: The list value of the silver medal is much closer to it's melt value than the Coral Reef. While clearly there were not enough silver medals minted (25,000) at least it was a fairly open and transparent list and sale... all 25,000 were probably sold right through the USM website, with no early access for dealers or preferred customers. No doubt many are still in flipper hands, but it would seem they got at least one quarter to one half the production into the hands of actual collectors.

...Meanwhile, the steeply marked-up Reef (mintage 4000?) was pre-sold almost entirely to dealers (and some to preferred customers, I presume). I'd love to know what proportion is now held by other than a dealer or flipper... clearly it's not that high a proportion though, given the current price is: exactly the list price. (It also leaves me wondering where the dealers are stockpiling the mountain of RCM coins that must be accumulating with the ever increasing release schedule....) I'm not sure why an RCM seeking loyal customers would intentionally drive them to secondary dealers... The entire thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth....

Considering that statement it occurs to me they ( RCM) must be doing something to keep them (Dealers) coming back and buying-out the stock... so maybe that's the deal; dealers get 1st access but they're then probably on the hook to also buy coin stock they might not want to carry? A trade-off that allows the RCM to "sell-out" so many releases that never actually sell-out, and while stuffing inventory into dealers hands it's also trying to balance by leading customers to their doors?

Doesn't encourage my loyalty, frankly.

No need to go below the border to see a dealer getting most of the stock.

We saw it last month when the Glow in the Dark Coral Reef coin sold hour in a few hours at the RCM. Almost all of them went to dealers; one in particular, Canadian Coin & Currency. I believe they commissioned the coin.