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 Replies: 12 / Views: 2,538 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1046 Posts |
thank you for viewing this is first foray into the token world could you share your opinion on the potential grade ? and perhaps advise on markers etc i do notice the O in token ( PMD) ? this example also appears to retain some original luster tia     Edited by torgemco
08/09/2016 08:30 am
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Valued Member
Canada
80 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
I just started collecting a few tokens also, so I'll wait on the grade until one of the token pros shows up..  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
far from pro, but F12 "o" in token appears to be PMDdragon slayer tokens were very well made & deeply struck. they dont grade like other tokens - you almost have to be thinking proof/cameo standards. for comparison below is 1857 low mint state. As you can see the original token in question is missing a great deal of detail and no where near VF+ 1850 1P is common in lower grades, but harder to find in higher grades compared to say 1857 as shown. value is maybe $7-$10  Edited by Wade
08/15/2016 12:56 am
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Valued Member
Canada
80 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Doctor Courteau identifies some 26 varieties of this series.
Dr. Courteau separates this series into two primary groupings
dependent upon the completeness of the obverse legend.
Group I encompasses Dr. Courteau varieties 208-217 inclusive.
This grouping exhibits perfect (complete) letters.
The absence of the inner serifs of the A in BANK is the most prominent diagnostic of the
broken letter grouping. This grouping encompasses Dr. Courteau varieties 218-233 inclusive.
Your token is in the second basic grouping. Now we have to look deeper....
Among other things, Dr. Courteau is concerned about the completeness of the Anchor Ring.
The Anchor ring is perfect on varieties 221, 222, 223, and 224.
The Anchor ring is 1/4 broken on varieties 218, 226, 227, and 229.
The Anchor ring is 1/2 broken on varieties 219, 220, 225, 228, 230, 231, and 232.
The Anchor ring on your token is 1/4 broken, ergo, either variety 218, 226, 227, or 229.
more to follow
doug
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
continuation of above:
Dr. Courteau identifies variety 218 as:
"Obv. No inner ceriphs to A of BANK. Specks between letters P. [in UPPER].
Rev. Practically no stand to letter N of TOKEN. One fourth of ring to Anchor
broken. R. 8." [on a scale of 1-10].
Your token is Courteau variety 218. Your token has a high rarity factor, but
unfortunately, serious collectors of this series by Courteau variety are even rarer.
I fully concur with Wade's grading and explanation.
Take a moment and carefully study Wade's beautiful MS 63 (at least) ensample.
The Helmet does not merge with the Visor, and neither merge into the man's face.
The Man's Ear is sharp, the Man's Fingers shew. The Bridle Strap is sharp and
clear of the Horse's Eye and Cheak. The initials below the right section of the
Ground are sharp and do not merge with the Ground. The, well I am not sure what it is,
but the parallel lines of the boot, leggings, or whatever they are suppose to be, are sharp. Etc.
The serriations of the Pineapples are sharp, The Dots atop the Anchor Shaft, the
Battle Axe Handle, and Sword are pristine. The more you look at Wade's ensample,
the more you see.
Wade, a terrific token.
Doug
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1046 Posts |
thank you all
for this information
it is greatly appreciated !!
i had scoured the web for
info too help self id,without any luck
may I ask if there are any sites
with more info too help with
self id.
once again
thank you
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
no real dedicated websites, but I strongly suggest charltons canadian tokens volume 7.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
I agree, Charlton's and Haxby's books are a must have.
And, as for such tokens, this site is currently the best available.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1046 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
840 Posts |
Kindly initiate a new post for each token.
Concerning the latest group of photos:
Courteau variety 230, having a rarity factor of 5 on a scale of 1-10.
VF 20 Damaged / cleaned. Net grade VG 10.
230 R-5 The author finds this variety rarer than the rarity factor indicates.
Caution must be exercised in attributing this variety, as varieties 226, 227, 228, 229, 230, 231, 232, and 233 share many similar characteristics. The author finds it best to process this grouping collectively and commence by eliminating the unique secondary and tertiary characteristics. Prior to attributing a specific variety, it is imperative to eliminate all other possible contingencies.
Obverse Characteristics: Similar to varieties 226-233.
A massing of four lines is below the Man's Right Arm.
Full Reins are to the Bridle.
Two Knobs are to the Dagger Hilt.
The Dragon's left Leg is complete.
The F in OF is re-cut.
The 6th and 7th Mantle Folds meet.
The Legend is defective.
An imaginary line along the right-side of the hollow of the numeral 0 extends to the right-side of the Knuckle of the lower Toe of the Dragon.
Note - This is a significant deviation from varieties 226-229. The cant of the numeral O differs.
The right-side of the Stand of the left Leg of the A in BANK is weakly struck.
The left-side of the Stand of the right Leg of the A in BANK is weakly struck.
The Cross-bar of the A in BANK has a downward curve.
The right-side of the Stand of the Upright of the K in BANK is Perfect.
Note - This is a primary diagnostic of this sub-grouping, as the Stand of the K is weakly struck on varieties 226, 227, 228, and 229. The Stand of the K is fully struck on varieties 230, 231, 232, and 233.
The left-side of the Serif of the Upright of the K in BANK is weakly struck.
The right-side of the Serif of the left Upright of the you in UPPER is weakly struck.
The Serif of the 1st P in UPPER is weakly struck.
The right-side of the Stand of the Upright of the R in UPPER is weakly struck.
The bottom of the C in CANADA is broken.
The left-side of the Serif of the right Upright of the N in CANADA is weakly struck.
The right-side of the Stand of the left Leg of the 2nd A in CANADA is weakly struck.
The left-side of the Stand of the right Leg of the 2nd A in CANADA is weakly struck.
The Cross-bar of the 2nd A in CANADA is weakly struck.
Some specimens are found having the Man's Back heavily re-cut.
From perfect dies.
Reverse Characteristics: The same as variety 226, but one-half the Anchor Ring is broken, and having different Die-Cracks.
The Anchor Brace extends to the Anchor Fluke.
3 and ½ Anchor Rope Dots betwixt Sword and Fledgling.
Three Oak leaves shew.
1 and ½ Grass blades.
The Legend is Perfect.
Note - This is a primary diagnostic, as all others, save variety 226, of the grouping have various defective letters.
The Anchor Ring is ½ broken.
The 2nd and 3rd quadrants of the Anchor Ring are Broken.
Note - Of this sub-grouping, varieties 226, 227, 229, and 231 have the Anchor Ring ¼ broken, whereas, varieties 228, 230, 232, and 233 have the Anchor Ring ½ broken.
Note - Of the ¼ broken Anchor Ring, only variety 226 has a perfect reverse legend, whereas the A in BANK is defective on varieties 227 and 231, and the O in ONE is defective on variety 229. These are primary secondary diagnostics.
From perfect and broken dies:
A Die-Crack is to the right of the K in BANK.
This Die-Crack is from the centre of the 2nd Denticle to the immediate right of the K in BANK, extending to the right-side of the upper left Crown Jewel.
Note - For some reason, Doctor Courteau identified this as a 'break.'
A Die-Crack is to the O in TOKEN.
This Die-Crack is from the left-side of the Denticle betwixt the T and O in TOKEN, extending to the shoulder of the left-side of the O in TOKEN.
Note - This Die-Crack was not mentioned by Doctor Courteau.
Thus:
230 Perfect - no Die-Cracks.
230A A Die-Crack is to the right of the K in BANK (reverse).
Die-Crack as above, plus a Die-Crack is to the O in TOKEN.
This is the Die-Crack progression.
doug
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1046 Posts |
thank you kindly
colonialtokens..
excellent commentary
greatly appreciated
regards
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Replies: 12 / Views: 2,538 |
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Posted 08/14/2016 06:27 am
