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Is It Real Or Fake ?

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Valued Member
spica's Avatar
France
285 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  04:13 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add spica to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does anyone can say to me if is it real or fake ?
Coin weights 25 g and 37 mm. I know some Italian coin are fake in this period.
Thank you



Is-It-Real-Or-Fake-?



Is-It-Real-Or-Fake-?
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin looks real to me. Krause lists it as C#105.1 25 grams, .900 silver from Sardina. F-$150.00, VF-300.00, XF-$750.00. I'd grade it within the VF range.
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Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't like it. Looks somewhat suspicious.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
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KurtS's Avatar
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm suspicious too, but I may be completely wrong here.
Despite the coin's nice grade, I find it odd that the portrait and devices are a similarly low relief.
From the little I know of collecting 19 C. coins, the dates are often at a distinctly different quality/depth to the rest of the coin because they were punched independently. Everything here looks far too similar--but I would take it all back if authenticated coins showed similar features.
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spica's Avatar
France
285 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spica to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the portrait is like C#93 in world coins (VF $1,500 - XF $3,200) BUT 1821 L is C#105 .I don't know if there is L before 5 on C#93, world coins picture is bad.
I am in doubt....
Valued Member
spica's Avatar
France
285 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  2:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spica to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found these coins on ebay :

http://www.muenzauktion.com/dumez/i...683e3f7a6d4e

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...11035710&ru=http://search.ebay.fr:80/search/search.dll%3Ffrom=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=330211035710&fvi=1

There is L before 5, I don't know what think
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the angle of the picture might make the coin look a little strange. I'm no expert but I really don't see anything that makes this coin look off. You can see the L next to the L5.
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halfabustisbetter's Avatar
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  3:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, don't know enough about the issue to say one way or another from the picture. My first look at the date made me think something was off about it, but it might just be a hit on the top of the second '1' that makes it look different.
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snowman's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2008  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to see the denticles around 8 o'clock on the obverse a little closer. I can't tell if the picture is washed out there is something going on there. I'd also want to see the mint mark closer to see how clear the L is.
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spica's Avatar
France
285 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2008  05:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spica to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have another picture but thanks for your opinions
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2008  11:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to put in my Two Cents worth -

I am not an expert on the Italian series, but I do know that their die making expertise exceeded the US and many other countries at that point in time. So the primary die features and the uniformity does not bother me at all - in fact uniformity is precisely what I would expect. Italy was also using a closed coining chamber at that time. The coin is a collared strike and the edge should show traces of the joins between the three sections of the collar die. The sections were lettered. So the edge would be interesting - a reeded edge is wrong as is a plain edge.

There was a very well done replica series produced a while ago that includes many of the scarce crown coins. I do not have a complete list of the coins produced but I have a dozen or more varieties in my collection that belong to that series. I would be a bit worried about this coin being one of these silver restrikes.

The only problem I would look into further are the dentils (or beads) near the edge - on both sides. There are a few spots where they are rather irregular and it could point to a die made by a transfer process that was corrected to remove some prominant damage on the host coin. In particular on the date side at 7:00 position the beads fade out and start to look like rectangles. (This could be simple damage - i.e. the coin being slightly crushed at that point. On the shield side there is a similar area near 6:00 where the shape of the beads changes. (If the dies were slightly rotated and these two areas are alligned - check for post strike damage. If these are both die features suspect a forgery.

The best advice is to KNOW and TRUST the seller. The coin is too scarce and valuable to spend a lot of mooney on a modern fake or even one of the restrikes.
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spica's Avatar
France
285 Posts
 Posted 03/06/2008  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spica to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the seller have doubt too and prefer suspend the auction because many suspicious buyers ! :)
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United States
1666 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2008  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin was artificially stained to look toned, so it appears. Plus the rim and beads look much more "primitive" than the 2 of these I've seen before. I suppose that can also be from dings or wear. Personally, if I saw it for a good price I would take it.

Is it exactly 25.0 grams? If it is even 1/10th of a gram higher, that would solve the mystery!
Edited by Numismat
03/07/2008 9:04 pm
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