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 Replies: 10 / Views: 1,969 |
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
134 Posts |
So I am hoping the old adage "silence is golden" holds true regarding this 1787 Connecticut Copper variety and there has been no response because no one has seen a similar looking specimen. Anyway, if anyone does have any thoughts about this coin or knows of someone who may, any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
This is a Miller 37, if I had to guess, but I need to do more research.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1657 Posts |
Silence is actually probably because Connecticuts can be quite difficult to attribute sometimes and it can be very time consuming to nail down the attribution. Not really having the time to be positive, I will throw out my initial observations. I don't think it is a 37 obverse, I see no fleuron before the Auctori unless it is just too weak to see. I would look at 34- ff.1
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
My silence is because I simply don't have the proper reference. The coin looks like it has enough detail that attribution should definitely be possible.
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
Thanks to all for their responses. Yes, this coin is weakly struck on the bottom of the obverse and top of the reverse. There may be a shadow of a fleuron before the Auctori, but hard to know for sure. The fleurons look larger than any other examples I could find on the web, but unfortunately I do not have any other reference for comparison. Any thoughts on grade or approximately value. Thanks again for your consideration.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
The problem with attributing CT coppers is that a new variety was seemingly created with every single coin struck.
Take that, and now throw in soft, hard, bent, used, improperly annealed, unalloyed, and various other flan types.
Combine with hand struck or screw press dies that were rarely in alignment...
Now for good measure, take several counterfeiting operations and have them all start making copies, based on dies engraved by people who ranged from budding artists to illiterate farmers...struck with great haste, and somewhat surreptitiously...sometimes on top of existing coins...
Messrs. Miller & Ryder must have been among the more patient men of their age; I could not imagine, now, the work that went into even cataloguing as many die varieties as they managed, and with much less information than is available today.
To generalize, this is a 1787 Draped Bust Left with a broken B in LIB, filled A in AUC, double line exergue at date.
** INDE : (fl) ETLIB : * rev
AUCTORI: (fl) (fl) CONNEC : (fl?) obv
The die has sunken, resulting in missing part of the legend. There is partial triangular dentition. The branch hand points right past center of D in INDE and the branch is under left of the left fleuron.
Can you get us a weight in grams? Also, look to see if the last 7 in the date appears to have been struck over an 8.
In the meantime, start Googling and you might find images of your coin.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
Wow! Great information. Thank you so much for your time and expertise. The coin is 8.9g to 9.0g and measures 27.9mm. Under 16X there sure doesn't appear to be any 8 under the 7. What about grade, that also seems to be a challenge with these coins.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Below is my opinion only. I am no expert. I think lcutler nailed it  Jarvis minted. Miller 34.ff-1 - R-5 rarity. The R in ET LIB is bifurcated, and actually the result of a modified R punch, resulting in the so-called "ET LIR" variety. Weight for a 34.ff is reported at around 140-145 grains (appx. 9 grams) with a planchet diameter of 28.1mm but 27.9mm is within tolerance; E in ET LIB appears to be touching the staff hand which is correct for the variety. Grade. Sharpness is mid VF. There is corrosion, and I suspect it has been burnished or otherwise cleaned. Strike is weak, more so on the obverse, apparently due to substantial erosion / die sinking; or perhaps misalignment or buckling. Color is a rusty reddish chocolate with steel. Rims have some damage. I would grade 30/10-12 (VF30 net VG10 to F12) with reverse having enough appeal to carry the grade. TPG grade. VF details, cleaned, corroded Value. $50 to $80, perhaps more to the right buyer. Photos of an Uncirculated specimen that sold @ SB.   Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
08/24/2016 11:37 pm
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Valued Member
United States
134 Posts |
This is awesome! Can't thank you enough!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
After looking at the uncirculated on I don't think that is a modified R punch at all. I think they just used an R punch in error instead of the B punch.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,969 |
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Posted 08/23/2016 8:46 pm
