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 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,678 |
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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts |
One day I decided to buy some bullion coins.
I ordered them, paid, they got delivered by UPS.
They correct coins were received.
The problem, for me at least, turned out to be related to the cases the coins were in.
The plastic cases are of the "do not open unless you want to get the coins slabbed" type.
Not just a simple capsule, but a credit card shaped case with a number and some inlaid lines that are supposed to fall apart when you try to open the case.
The idea is that it will be visible if you tampered with it, probably making the whole thing a somewhat less desirable item.
These seem untouched.
But the cases are scratched. Significantly. To the point that at certain angles it's hard to photograph the coins.
You may say it's bullion so it doesn't matter that much - and it seems all scratches are on the case, not the coins. If you squint enough it seems the scratches are reflected by the coins' luster.
Not to mention that there are toning spots on one of the coins too, and these coins tend to tone particularly ugly (could it be due to the plastic used for the cases?), but to the point...
After receiving them, I decided to call the company to politely ask about returns.
Before I even got to mention what I received, I got a gruff reply that they do not accept returns.
I asked the gruff guy to elaborate on that point - why are there no returns?
First, he said that "coins are not products that you actually need, like shoes", so they aren't covered by the consumers' rights to return items bought online.
Then, he added that "these items that were consigned to us, so returns are not acceptable", paused, added "you need to think before you buy anything" - and hung up before I could say a word.
Seriously? Impoliteness aside, that immediately sounded like garbage.
I have bought and returned many "products that you don't actually need" and most probably "products that were consigned" to the sellers, all due to faults not readily apparent on listing images, and never had someone question the right to return them.
Even though all these purchases were from abroad (but within the EU), similar regulations exist in all EU countries.
Their competitors' terms say they accept returns - without any distinction whether the coins were consigned to them or not.
I then checked their own terms. They state that returns are possible if the item turns out to be fake or misidentified.
There's no word about any other reasons at all in their terms.
So, I checked the terms the mint has, as it's a business that's selling the same coins. Here, I found the answer - I cannot return them because fall in the category of items which price may substantially change within the timeperiod allowed for returns [of other items].
The mint even provided a reference to a legal act that lists such exceptions.
So, I can't return them - but the things that guy said were garbage, after all, just as I thought.
If that's how their treat their customers, I hope they don't expect me to ever buy anything from them again, recommend them to anyone, or consign anything to them.
As I don't intend to keep it, said bullion goes into the "sales" box. It will have to sit there at least until April (there is some sort of tax if you consign something for sale too quickly here, at least 6 months must elapse).
So yes, technically everything is OK.
But the whole experience somehow makes me feel duped, even though I wasn't. Am I overreacting here?
That's supposed to be the most reputable company in the business here. And I didn't waste their time by buying something for $2 and then changing my mind - as I mentioned, I didn't even have the opportunity to mention what I bought!
If you get that kind of service for that kind of money, then sorry, I'm out.
The company in question is called WCN, it's located in Poland. They also hold auctions online. So, just in case you happen to buy something from their store and want to return it, keep in mind that there may be problems with it. Both for legitimate and contrived reasons.
Rant over, thank you. Edited by DL20K
09/11/2016 05:53 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1027 Posts |
The US Mint actually has a very decent return policy "If for any reason within 7 days of receiving your product you are dissatisfied with your purchase, you can return the entire product for refund. Shipping charges will not be refunded for all returns." You don't need a reason, "I changed my mind" is good enough. If a coin is damaged and you want an exchange, call them and see if you can make a deal on shipping costs. Of course, the coins sold directly by the mint are not "bullion" coins, they are "numismatic" coins and come at a much larger premium over spot prices when compared to bullion.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5241 Posts |
The lesson here is that customer service and the return policy are important in deciding who to buy from.
Ignoring the rude treatment for a moment, think about what would happen if a company allowed returns for bullion (sold at spot prices). If the price goes down, the customer can return it and buy it again at a lower price-a good recipe for bankruptcy.
In the case of the mint, bullion is priced well above bullion, and the price does not drop if the price of gold drops. So they are protected.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Sorry for your bad experience. Not all sellers are bad. As for the mint. You can return the products you buy from the mint store. But not the coins bought from bullion sales. Most bigger dealers will buy all eagles brought to them. I had no problems buying from APMEX and Provident mint. And for decades I have always developed a good relationship with local dealers. Maybe buying bullion is not for everyone. One thing most don't get, is that bullion is bought and sold based on the spot price of that type of bullion. You buy it for a little over spot and sell for a little back of spot. In my opinion most of the big buyers are doing so to protect their wealth. Those that are doing it strictly for investment are not really making the best investment. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
Bullion sales are not refundable here in the states either. You could sell it back to them in some cases at their "buy price" of the day but as others have mentioned spot prices change to rapidly.
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Pillar of the Community
 Poland
3201 Posts |
Thank you for providing the American perspective on the issue of bullion purchases  Quote:
The lesson here is that customer service and the return policy are important in deciding who to buy from.
That's right. Though you don't usually contact customer service unless something is already wrong. Considering these criteria, WCN has a vague return policy and their employee used made-up reasons for not allowing returns: they've failed that test on both counts. I am amazed at why they couldn't just tell me the truth. Well, their choice - their loss. And a little politeness on their part wouldn't have hurt either. |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
Now that is indeed a terrible experience and I do feel sorry for you. Let's try to be positive and practical: I'd call this 'learning money'. This is also why I nowadays always want to see a coin myself before I buy it. I basically stopped buying stuff online due to too many people having such experiences and a bit of my own experience, too. No return policies usually apply to 'unwanted' goods, like where people changed their minds. In your case you actually received 'damaged' goods, which might juridically be different in Poland, as it is in many EU countries (I do even believe there's EU policy on this). It's also common here for a shop to offer to trade damaged goods for not damaged ones, if still available. I guess I don't have to advise you not to buy there anymore.  Now, the best you can do is just don't order there anymore and share your experience about this shop. There's no better way to destroy your own business than by having unsatisfied customers who actually share their experiences with you with the rest of the world. We have some good tv shows in The Netherlands that try to defend customer rights in cases like these. There might be some in Poland, too. No better way to shame a shop than public shaming on tv. Otherwise, there might be a customer protection office in Poland which comes up for customer rights in cases like these. We have one in Holland and Norway. It's called 'Ombudsman' here in both cases. We're in Europe, we have rights, we just sometimes need to find out who wants to defend them. For these coins, the best you can probably do is get them out of the case asap and put them into your own storage facilities. Just don't let this bad experience prevent you from buying bullion coins in the future again. There are many nice ones out there, worth collecting. |
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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts |
You do not need to tell me not to buy from Warszawskie Centrum Numizmatyczne (WCN) again I admit that I initially didn't intend to make a thread about the scratched cases. The bad toning could be spotted on the listing image too (though somewhat hard to notice - but if you know where it is, you can definitely spot it). That changed after the phone call and their response described above. It is difficult to say whether this case would be interpreted as receiving damaged goods. The coins are good (well, they probably are, it's hard to tell for certain through all the scratches), only the cases are damaged. And the cases still fulfil their purpose which is certifying the authenticity of their contents. Still, there was no mention of them being in such condition in the description and the image didn't really show how bad they were. But again, it was their "considerate" response that made me decide to include their name in this thread. Yes, I thought about taking the coins out but... As there are many incomplete sets being offered (no certificate, broken security lines, or no holder altogether), keeping them in their original holders, however scratched they are, may paradoxically be their advantage, making them more credible items than raw pieces. While slabbing them would add even more credibility (and ensure a safer environment for the coins in question), I don't want to waste even more money on them. Refraining from buying unseen bullion is sound advice (unless one accumulates bullion just for their PM contents, regardless of condition or type, of course). The whole thing makes me want to reconsider collecting coins altogether, though. Edited by DL20K
09/12/2016 07:23 am
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Valued Member
South Africa
331 Posts |
I buy bullion here in South Africa sometimes 10 coins at once, now the seller places each coin in a capsule, then individually bubble wraps each coin, places it in a plastic container, inside a box with polystyrene balls! I get this MASSIVE box with 10 coins in lol
I have met the seller and yeah he is very professional and fast.
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Valued Member
United States
81 Posts |
Are you talking about those Polish gold eagles in the Certicards? Have you tried using that same chemical to remove scratches from slabs? It might work, but certainly do a small test area first.
I don't know about in Europe, but here in the US, returning bullion items is always a dicey proposition.
I think the lesson is if you are buying bullion as something other than bullion (e.g., it has a brand new looking Certicard), you should make sure the item justifies the premium.
Personally, I would love to be able to buy a gold Polish eagle in a Certicard at near spot, regardless of how scratched up the card was.
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Valued Member
United States
314 Posts |
Sounds like the solution here is for Buzz Killington to contact DL20K in April.
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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts |
I can sell them, just can't commission them without paying tax. Or so, I've heard No, I have not tried to remove the scratches. I'm afraid it may result in the plastic getting even more opaque. And I can't contact Buzz as he's not given an e-mail address, so unless he notices this message... |
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Valued Member
United States
81 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3058 Posts |
 ...please. |
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Valued Member
United States
408 Posts |
I buy bullion coins all the time. I could care less whether the product or the case is scratched. My main two main concerns are:
1. Is the product real silver?
2. Does it weigh what it is supposed to?
That's it. Life is easy when buying bullion. Now, if it was a collector's coin, things are different. Presentation is everything and scratches on the case or coin would definitely matter.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,678 |
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Posted 09/10/2016 6:08 pm
