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What Do You Consider "Rare"?

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Omegaraptor's Avatar
United States
321 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2016  10:16 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Omegaraptor to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
In your opinion, how rare does a coin have to be to be considered scarce or rare?

I personally believe that scarce is under 500 survivors and rare is under 75 survivors. Might seem a bit low, but half of the Seated series meets the definition for scarce. This corresponds with the Sheldon scale.

Now what's your opinion?
Edited by Omegaraptor
09/15/2016 10:32 pm
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 09/15/2016  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There's an Rarity Scale that has been used for a very long time in the hobby. I just go with that. If you'd like to have a personal scale that is S1 and R1 that's cool.
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
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 Posted 09/15/2016  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I judge rarity by availability. Some of the coins I'm after show up to auction once every 5-10 years. I consider those rare. 1909 S VDB, on the other hand, is actually quite common and not worth the asking price to me. Collecting rarities for rarity sake is boring to me (*cough-cough* die variety collecting), but I guess the thrill of the hunt can be rewarding.

Here is a great article on rarity that aligns with my views:

http://esty.ancients.info/numis/rarity.html
Edited by TypeCoin971793
09/16/2016 08:51 am
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Saruma's Avatar
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 Posted 09/15/2016  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd say anything under 1000 coins is rare (though scarce might match your terminology before). I'd consider anything under 100 very rare. But that's just off the top of my head.

Desirability is the other half of the equation. That's why a 1909S VDB can sell for more than coins many, many times rarer but lacking the collector base.
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 Posted 09/16/2016  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add terry8835 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgans have a huge collector base and many Morgans that are not that rare in EF condition are pretty scarce in MS64-65. I look at some of the late 19th century $20 gold pieces and they seem rare to me, but if that coin was a Saint-Gaudens it would be worth ten times the amount given same scarcity. For instance, mintage of 1892 Liberty Head $20 is just 4430. It goes for $9000 in AU55. The 1907 High Relief Saint in AU55 with mintage of 12,367 goes for around $13,000. People just love those coins. Some of the other Liberty Head $20 coins have truly rare mintage amounts
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kanga's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2016  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the definitions in general use.
There are slight variations of this 8 point scale.

R-8: This is a unique coin; only 1 exists
R-7 High: A coin that's excessively rare; 2 to 3 exist
R-7 Low: An extremely rare coin with 4 to 12 remaining known
R-6: A very rare coin with 13 to 30 known specimens
R-5: 31 to 75 coins exist, classifying it as rare
R-4: A very scarce coin with 76 to 200 examples left
R-3: With 201 to 500 estimated pieces, this is a scarce coin
R-2: A coin that is not common, with 501 to 1250 coins in existence
R-1: With at least 1251 coins remaining, this is a common coin

But PCGS has it's own scale and definitions (gee, what a surprise) based on 10 rather than 8.
Edited by kanga
09/16/2016 08:31 am
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beem's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2016  08:34 am  Show Profile   Check beem's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add beem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's "rare" when mine is the only one available for sale on ebay. :)
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Collects82's Avatar
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1316 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I judge rarity by availability. Some of the coins I'm after show up to auction once every 5-10 years. I consider those rare. 1909 S VDB, on the other hand, is actually quite common and not worth the asking price to me. Collecting rarities for rarity sake is boring, but I guess the thrill of the hunt can be rewarding.


I agree with this. If there is truly infrequent public sales history (once every few years) and dealers who specialize in a niche who don't come across them very often; it is rare. If it is something that might come up once a year or so, I'd consider it scarce.

There is a short list of US coins I consider rare, most of them are available at any given time.

Valuation is another story, and just because a buyer can't afford it at any given moment because of inflated values doesn't make it rare; only maybe rare to them.

I was at the Ft Myers show a few months ago. There were maybe 15 dealers setup. At least half of the displayed inventory was Morgans. I did note about 4 1877 IHCs too. If a coin is even "scarce", to have 4 at a little show like this is reason to re-evaluate. I would guess if I was focused on this coin at the winter FUN show, I could find a few dozen under that one large roof.
Edited by Collects82
09/16/2016 10:05 am
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thq's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2016  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been using the PCGS survival estimates, though used to use PCGS plus NGC graded counts. Because survival estimates for most coins have been increasing over the years it's more comparative. "Rarer" vs "rare" in determining best values among coins offered for sale.

Right now PCGS survival under 150 is rare enough to be interesting. When you find one it will be a long time before you see another offered. Coins like this 1877 cent with 5000 survival

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1877-INDIAN...AMXQhpdRp4ta

are available 24/7 for $800-1000. But when will another 1874-S half eagle survival 115 show up? I found one 15 years ago in a shop selling tor melt. IMO that was a coin with enough rarity to be interesting at half the price of the 1877 cent.
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
09/16/2016 08:50 am
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ExoGuy's Avatar
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 Posted 09/16/2016  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Typecoin971793 ... Thanks for posting the link to Warren Esty's excellent narrative on rarity. While I've never avidly collected ancient coins, Mr. Esty's thoughts on rarity surely coincide with my own; this, relative to counterstamps, Civil War tokens, error coins and other genres that I collect. I found this segment to be most insightful:


Quote:
There is a thrill in discovering and owning a never-before-seen type. You can feel a strong sense of "belonging to the club" of serious collectors when you know you have something unique. Other serious collectors will definitely be interested and laud your acumen.
However, a beginner can not know what is unique (or, even "very rare") from reading ebay descriptions which are often erroneous when it comes to rarity. It takes years of immersion in the subject and an extensive book and catalog library to begin to be able to know what might be unpublished, or even genuinely "very rare." However, if you persevere, buy the books, and keep your eyes peeled, you will eventually find occasional minor treasures about which you can say, with assurance, "This is a very rare type." Then you will doubtless enjoy a great and lasting feeling. However, unless the type is really distinctive, don't expect your rarity to bring a great premium.
-- Warren


IMHO, true rarity transcends the numbers, the availability and/or demand for specimens. For the average collector, rarity is linked to mintage numbers, numeric grades, the number of specimens graded, and ultimately the amount of money that another collector will pay to acquire a coin.

Rarity is a mindset, based largely upon one's knowledge or lack thereof. Here's one of my favorite counterstamped coins. Brunk listed three specimens back in 2003, and more may be out there. It wasn't pictured in his book, and I find none online. Only those collectors who study counterstamps may even know of this issue. It may be worth a few hundred bucks to a knowledgeable collector. To the vast majority of collectors, it's simply a damaged coin or curiosity. To me, discovering about Robert Onderdonk and his patented utensil, the history, is tied to its rarity.


What-Do-You-Consider-



What-Do-You-Consider-
Edited by ExoGuy
09/16/2016 09:49 am
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many relatively common coins can be quite rare in the higher grades as well
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Garoyn's Avatar
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513 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Garoyn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Onderdonk Lemon Squeezer patent

https://patentimages.storage.google...US354022.pdf
Edited by Garoyn
09/16/2016 10:32 am
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Garoyn's Avatar
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Rest in Peace
dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rare is finding an ebay auction with the listed coin described as "rare" and actually is rare.
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Susuman's Avatar
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595 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  12:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Susuman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, for me, a 'rare coin is any one that I don't have

There are a few 'common' coins that I can't seem to find a decent example of.
Valued Member
United States
282 Posts
 Posted 09/16/2016  12:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add syeb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When building a collection, rare can apply to many coins that don't qualify under any classic definition of rare. If there are few or no coins of a particular year/variety/grade for sale, then regardless of actual mintages or census figures, the coin is "rare" to me.

On the other hand, every coin I list for sale is definitely rare, if not the world's rarest!
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