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 Replies: 47 / Views: 6,071 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4418 Posts |
Garoyn ... Thanks. While I'm aware of Onderdonk's patents, your postings will perhaps help others appreciate how history can augment the appreciation and rarity of numismatic pieces. Onderdonk operated a billiards saloon and owned the Grand Street building. He also issued a few "rare" obsolete notes. Much of the "rarity" surrounding counterstamped coins and/or tokens entails their telling us, literally, where they've been, how they were spent and who held them ... the living history.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10038 Posts |
@Exoguy That kind rarity to me is very appealing (OK - slight pun). To me it is something very special to be able to locate one obscure item from history past, and then be able to connect it to some other historic item of same era. Think of it, this little nickel made it such that many years after his death, Mr. Onderdonk's legacy became known to a total group of strangers, over 100 years later, who otherwise never would have heard of his existence. I wonder if he ever considered that when this coin was counterstamped? One other aspect of this coin being rare, from my perspective, is that Mr. Onderdonk's given address in the advert. shows he was on Grand St in NY. From the date on the nickel, he was also a contemporary, right down the road, from the glassworks that made the Brookfield glass insulators which specialize in and have done extensive research into their history. The Bushwick Glass Works was at the corner of Grand St and Morgan Ave in NY. To me your nickel represents a very rare hobby "crossover" item between my two main hobbies. Rare in more ways than one for sure! And very cool! If you ever find another...  How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1849 Posts |
Rare is when your (really, really) want one, and can't find one.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4418 Posts |
@Earle42 ... Yep, "appeeling" the Onderdonk counterstamp is to some collectors ...
I posted this coin to illustrate that "rare" numismatic items need not necessarily be high grade, nor expensive. Population-wise, even the most common Civil War tokens, exist in relatively small numbers today in comparison to most key date coins - for which demand drives their perceived rarity.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1944 Posts |
really a relative issue...
rare to me is a coin that I quest to find...but have never found...
of which there are MANY... all "rare" in my opinion...
one could always buye - said - rare coins..but that is a different consideration...
lateley (for me) nearly everything (varieties) seem rare..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
How about this definition: If you were a billionaire, and you didn't care about how much you spent on a coin, a truly rare coin is not one you can just go and buy whenever you want (nixes most US issues), but one that you will have to wait for some time to become available. 1909 S VDB's are not rare. 1916 D Mercury dimes are not rare. A Mongolian Yuan Dynasty "Da Chao Tong Bao," which has a value of ~$2000 in nice condition, is quite rare as the billionaire will have to wait for it to become available until he/she can buy it. It does show up once every few years, though. Edited by TypeCoin971793
09/16/2016 6:25 pm
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Valued Member
United States
114 Posts |
Personally I think a rarity scale that considers anything with over 1,000 population as "common" is not going to be very useful for the average collector. You have to pay a lot more for a Seated dollar in any condition than most Morgans in mint state because they are rarer. Maybe not rare enough to put you on a short list for owning one, but rare enough to make a difference in your search and your wallet. I don't have a scale, but I could probably rank my coins by how low in grade I had to go to afford them. :) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
I find quite a few "conditional" rare coins among the Morgans. You know the coin you can buy in EF condition for $290 but in MS60 it is $7200 like the 1884-S Morgan. Then there is 1892-S that goes from $1650 in AU to $40,000 in MS60. Even the 1895-O take huge leaps in value between grades. To me these conditional rarities blow me away. I want my Morgans to be really fine but no way can I afford them so they are rare to me.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Truism: a coin can be rare and not worth a fortune, or a coin can be rare and worth many fortunes. Demand is the critical factor. I have an IHC die variety of which only two are known (and mine the best by far) and yet I consider it worth barely five figures. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
Which USA coins are most in demand these days? I know Morgans and Saints, but I see a lot of other sets where only the key dates are that desirable. Then we have collectors that want the best possible condition for coins that are not that rare. At my LCS the owner had a 1919-D LSQ that was just off the charts. It was the best LSQ I had ever seen and maybe a MS66 FH. It was so good it looked unreal, but it was real. He was not even sure what it might be worth because it was just so unusual.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I can not go by so called information that may or may not be accurate as to rare or scarce. It is just not accurate to know if the amount remaining is also not known. To me if I can't easily find a coin, it is rare.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:If you were a billionaire, and you didn't care about how much you spent on a coin, a truly rare coin is not one you can just go and buy whenever you want (nixes most US issues), but one that you will have to wait for some time to become available. 1909 S. VDB's are not rare. 1916 D Mercury dimes are not rare. A Mongolian Yuan Dynasty "Da Chao Tong Bao," which has a value of ~$2000 in nice condition, is quite rare as the billionaire will have to wait for it to become available until he/she can buy it. It does show up once every few years, though. But if the word gets out that the billionare WANTS it, it will come to him. For me it has to be Sheldon Scale R-5 or higher, no more than 75 known. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Rare has many levels. Rare type - examples might be $4 Stella, Gobrecht dollar, Bechtler or Gruber gold, Judd patterns for 19th century coinage, etc. Rare date - 1804 Dollar, 1913 V nickel, so on, so forth Rare mint mark - Charlotte or Dahlonega gold, etc. Rare provenance - A famous small but rare hoard (Saddle Ridge), a famous coin cabinet (Missouri, California), a famous 19th or early 20th c. numismatist or collector (many examples) Rare die variety - The NC varieties of Large Cents, R6 and up varieties of Overton/Sheldon/etc. varieties, or rare Brunk counterstamps, Vlack/Martin/Newman/Miller colonials, Low HTT's, etc Condition rarity - pre-1840s Proofs, certain Morgan dollars in MS65 and better, PL/DMPL Morgans for certain dates, same for FB Mercury Dimes/FH SLQ's for certain dates There are lots of other cool rare things such as original 18th and 19th century medals, counterstamped coins with well-known company or individual names, etc. that can be almost unique and yet still affordable for non-millionaires... If you want to track "rare", a good way to start is by seeing when the last time that the coin was available for sale. Some coins are rare enough that they are offered for sale only once every 5, 10, 50, or even 100 years... Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5176 Posts |
Rarity and demand don't really have much to do with each other.
A few weeks ago, I bought (among other stuff) three coins for about $10 each - a Roman silver antoninianus of Trebonianus Gallus (3rd century), a Nabataean AE of Rabbell and Gamilat (1st century), and a Cherson cast AE of Michael and Basil (9th century).
The Nabataean coin is, as far as I understand, a good deal rarer than the Roman (which itself likely has less than 1000 known examples), and the Cherson coin is probably even rarer.
Yet (as far as I understand, anyway) a regular collector will jump at the Roman, wouldn't know Rabbell and Gamilat from a monkey's uncle, and might not recognize the Cherson piece as a coin at all.
High rarity, but low demand - so the prices were similar (and tiny).
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1450 Posts |
Yes, as has been said "demand" is really what drives prices. Where does demand come from in the Coin World and what creates it? If you knew that you could get rich for not that much money if you could predict the next "In Demand" coin today that will be in high demand in a few years. So which are the USA coins that are in demand in 2016? Gaze into your crystal balls and let me know. |
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Replies: 47 / Views: 6,071 |
First Page
Posted 09/16/2016 1:06 pm
