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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I have attached an item from the Heritage weekly auction. It is a Hookneck 8 Reales the common date 1824 Mo JM. It was certified by NGC as VF details with rim filing and scratches. The hammer price was $376. In addition to the damage listed I would add - a notched rim cut (test cut) and obvious cleaning - check perimeter for discoloration. Why would anyone bid that much for such a damaged common date? https://coins.ha.com/itm/mexico/mex...1639-65291.s |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
937 Posts |
Wow, a chance to answer a question from Swamperbob!
I have noticed that coins in HA auctions often go for prices that seem to make little sense. Two that I followed, one a US coin the other French, both listed HA as buyer.
I think that is HA protecting a clients reserve without letting on that there is a high reserve on the coin. This coin may, or may not fall into this category.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5362 Posts |
Time for a hint.
The reverse die is pictured in the 2001 Supplement to Hooknecks by Hubbard and O'Harrow. The obverse die (the eagle) is a new die not pictured in the book at all. So while the date is common, the die pair is RARE, possibly unique.
Any theories based on that?
Any other comments at all?
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Pillar of the Community
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5362 Posts |
Tryna In this case, it is not an issue with the owner's reserve. Care to guess why?
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Pillar of the Community
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1156 Posts |
It's a counterfeit. Is it contemporary?
Edited by jgenn
10/01/2016 7:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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937 Posts |
Folds my hands on my desk and quietly looks at Swamperbob thinking it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak further remove all doubt
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Pillar of the Community
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5362 Posts |
jgenn Absolutely correct. It is a contemporary circulating counterfeit.
The Cap die is seen in "The Supplement to Hooknecks" published in 2001 on page 16 - Type B. It is one of three coins in the book that shared the same eagle die.
Well the one in the Heritage Auction uses the identical Cap as the type B - but uses an entirely NEW obverse (Eagle) die unknown to Dave O'Harrow.
Just before Dave retired from active collecting he shared with me his estimate that no more than 50-100 contemporary counterfeit Hookneck 8Rs have survived. I agree with one exception - the coin listed in Riddell's book as # 191 is rather common, I have seen a few dozen of that one type and believe Dave could be right about the other dozen or so varieties. They are truly rare.
In this case, the second bidder did not come close to my reserve. I believe it is worth over $1,000 and when you add the fact it is a certified Genuine Counterfeit that price is likely low.
Tryna I had a professor in college that said the only foolish question was the one not asked and the only foolish comment was the one never expressed. We learn best when we are forced to think outside our comfort zone.
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Pillar of the Community
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1156 Posts |
Congratulations on your new CC acquisition, swamperbob. Will you keep it in the slab or crack it out in order to get its weight and other diagnostics? Or will you publish it in your next book to shame NGC?  Edited by jgenn
10/02/2016 9:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
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5362 Posts |
I will be keeping it inside the holder that assures me it is genuine. I will likely publish it and the others I have located in similar holders as a warning to collectors to always look at the coin in a holder with the eye of caution. At some point it may come out, but to my knowledge it is the only Hookneck counterfeit that has ever been slabbed.
It is a serious error one that I never believed would EVER occur except in third tier slabs.
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Pillar of the Community
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1962 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
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5362 Posts |
realeswatcher No I didn't see it or if I did I failed to make a note about it or copy it.
That is a fantastic example of the Riddell # 193 which would have brought a bid over $1,000 from me. I wonder who owns it now?
I guess that once one coin shows up a second is not far behind - sort of like grey hairs.
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Replies: 10 / Views: 1,119 |
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Posted 10/01/2016 2:54 pm
