Is This 1877 Italian 20 Lire A Fake?

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Author	Replies: 7 / Views: 1,545
UberDan Valued Member Australia 95 Posts	Posted 11/06/2016 02:05 am So a friend of mine from Italy gave me some coins and among the random coins, I found this little beauty (1877 Italian 20 Lire - VF). Now that I know its worth ($200+), I want to ensure it's not a fake. I did some measurements and its diameter and thickness is spot on. I don't have a very accurate scale so I couldn't accurately test it's weight. Could anyone help me with this, as I'm not familiar with this series of coins. Thanks Dan * Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. * Edited by UberDan 11/06/2016 02:36 am Report this Post to the Staff

cara Valued Member Uruguay 217 Posts	Posted 11/06/2016 1:51 pm On reverse side the T and B characters indicate Torino Mint. But, actually in 1877 only were minted in Roma Mint, at least it is what I found in catalogs. So, I vote for fake, sorry. Try to measure the coin, for known if it is made of gold and it has bullion value at least. http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces17714.html Report this Post to the Staff
UberDan Valued Member Australia 95 Posts	Posted 11/06/2016 9:46 pm sigh, I was really looking forward to that extra cash... . Any suggestions for weighing it without an accurate scale? (mine goes down to approximate grams, and is sometimes a gram or two off). Report this Post to the Staff
Enlil Pillar of the Community Australia 560 Posts	Posted 11/06/2016 10:12 pm You might as well get in checked out by an expert. Report this Post to the Staff
flippy Pillar of the Community Australia 1874 Posts	Posted 11/06/2016 11:18 pm I would also say that it is fake due to the mint mark being wrong. You could take it to a jewellery store and have them weigh it. Also the jewellery store can test it to see if it is gold. Sometimes fakes are made out of real gold. It is worth having it checked out. Report this Post to the Staff
UberDan Valued Member Australia 95 Posts	Posted 11/07/2016 04:14 am What I'm confused about is why such a good fake missed out on such an important detail. Like really, if you were going to make a fake that good, wouldn't you check that it was actually made in that mint beforehand? and also, why that date? there are more expensive dates out there. In fact, it is the date with the second highest mintage, that's 120 times more common then the rarest one! Or maybe it is just a particularly rare variant! Report this Post to the Staff
cara Valued Member Uruguay 217 Posts	Posted 11/07/2016 12:19 pm Uberdan, Quote: ...What I'm confused about is why such a good fake missed out on such an important detail... I do not think it is a good counterfeit, if you look at date the second 7 appears to be bigger than previus, and has more other irregularities. Quote: ....if you were going to make a fake that good, wouldn't you check that it was actually made in that mint beforehand?.... Counterfeiters usually put erros, they mix the dies for example, for most people it is by carelessness. IMO, they do that for reduce punishment if they were catched, because they could tell "It is not a exact counterfeit because this coin type do not exist" Do you understand what I mean? Quote: ...why that date? there are more expensive dates out there... The more common date, the less suspect will be the forgery. IMO too. Quote: ...Or maybe it is just a particularly rare variant!... Could be, or even could be a pattern or something rare. But, it must be in some catalog, do not you think? Of course, I am not a guru of the Italian coins, only a simple collector as you. Anyway, thanks to share the coin with us, please keep us informed what you find about this one. Either as a forgery or a rare coin the information will be useful for we. Report this Post to the Staff
colonialjohn Pillar of the Community United States 1757 Posts	Posted 11/09/2016 8:12 pm Yes Roma but check the (Regal Weight = 6.4516 grams). Krause p.848 7th Edition. Could be a rare mintmark? Could be a very collectible contemporary circulating counterfeit if weight is there or close. Probably brass or gold debased with copper if weight is low which as with Spanish Isabellas normally around 50% of regal. JPL Report this Post to the Staff
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