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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,591 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
I posted this proof pattern cent in another thread and took a close look at the obverse photo. This piece is graded PF-65BN by NGC and is identified as Judd number J-160. I never noticed it before, but it appears to have been double-struck. I see distinct doubling on the obverse denticles, LIBERTY, the eyelid, nose, and profile. The ear and the hair strands in front of the ear are also affected. I just checked previous sales of this Judd-160 ("original") pattern on Heritage and did not see any other examples with similar features. I know proofs in general are supposed to be struck at least twice to bring up all the details. Might this be an example of a coin that shifted slightly in the die between strikes? Or, since it is the obverse that looks doubled, maybe it was the hammer (obverse) die itself that moved? I'll pull this coin out of the safe deposit box for closer examination. In the meantime, I'd appreciate any insight from CCF members!   |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1699 Posts |
Quote:
Might this be an example of a coin that shifted slightly in the die between strikes? Or, since it is the obverse that looks doubled, maybe it was the hammer (obverse) die itself that moved? For sure, it is one of these. However, I've never been able to distinguish between the two. I suspect it may be the latter. Double strikes with slight rotation between strikes are somewhat common on patterns and small to medium sized medals of the 19th century. Many times you will see rotation that is much less prominent. Edit: You should start looking at your coins more closely before you purchase!  Edited by ErrorCoins222
11/06/2016 10:33 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Beautiful coin in any event!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Reverse show nothing except a normal strike. Maybe a doubled die? I can't tell for sure if the date is doubled or not?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
a close up on the word LIBERTY would be very helpful.
Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6396 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Now it looks like it was double struck in the collar. Just the obverse is affected. If it were a doubled die, the second set of devices would be raised. Instead they are just altered. Thanks for the second series of images.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2125 Posts |
Double struck. I don't believe a double die is possible on non-hubbed dies. Very very cool notwithstanding!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
It has happened many times on the Indian Head cent.    The hubbing of the bust has been doubled, but the other devices were normal from the hubbing process they used back then. At first letters were punched into the die, date digits, bust and ETC. But as the process continued, then they started using practices that we see today with the hub. Since 1990 the design of the mint marks are also part of the hub. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9795 Posts |
That is some serious minting mischief right there Jaobler, very cool and thanks you for sharing the photos.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The OP coin is definitely double struck not a doubled die. Note that both the date and the bust are doubled, but those features were not put into the die at the same time. Also the secondary images are flattened to some extent not full raised and rounded as in the images coop posted. Especially note how the date doubling has almost completely flattened the first image.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
I sent some photos to Fred Weinberg who opined it was a definite double strike and that he has seen several US pattern coins with a similar effect, caused by die rotation between consecutive strikes.
I will see if NGC will attribute this as a double-strike error. I want to re-holder it anyway since the current holder is pretty scuffed.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3229 Posts |
That is awesome piece of copper!! The double eyelashes make her even more pretty!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
I had some confusing conversations with NGC about my coin. They initially told me that NGC did not certify "double struck" coins, just doubled die coins. They were apparently confused about the difference between a double strike and Strike Doubling or Machine Doubling. Once we came to an agreement that a double strike was an actual error I submitted my coin for error attribution. Just got it back today, properly attributed. Oddly, they also enclosed a note saying this coin "has been evaluated and is a good candidate for NCS Conservation". Anybody think I should send it in again so they can run it through their conservation process?   |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Simply lovely. Glad that worked out well.
And, no, I wouldn't consider conservation unless they were paying you.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9795 Posts |
 I also thought they detailed coins that they conserve through NCS? "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,591 |
Posted 11/07/2016 5:11 pm
