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 Replies: 89 / Views: 17,263 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Ok, so I posted about this in another section; but I thought I would make a topic of it. I've recently been worried about some of my ebay purchases, as some of you have read about in my MICRO-O morgan section(still waiting on that one). I got a great deal on a $3 Indian princess coin that was in an easily-removable bezel. I removed it without any noticible damage to the coin. The coin was surely cleaned, and I took that possibility into account with my purchase. Now I read on the PCGS site in one of their coin grading competitions that they spotted a counterfeit 1855 $3 gold. The coin I received honesly looks brand new(other than the cleaning scratches and a few nicks). The details in the hair are remarkable and the rim is flawless. I dont have a scale, but I'm looking into one. Anyways, I was wondering if there were any $3 gold experts out there? I've spent a half an hour comparing my coin to the same coin on the PCGS website, and can't find any noticible differences, though the wavy hair pattern is slightly different in one spot. All the lettering and size seems exactly the same. I would post pictures, but am I allowed to do that yet as a new member? I may just be paranoid, but any enlightenment would be helpful. thanks, John  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The three dollar gold is one of the MOST counterfeited of all the US series (running neck and neck with the type II gold dollar. When ANACS began operations they reported that over 66% of all of the threes and type II dollars submitted were fake.) So the fake shown by PCGS is probably not the only known counterfeit for that date. So even if it doesn't match that coin, that doesn't guarantee that it is real.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
Did your seller guarantee the coin was genuine? I would contact him if possible and see if he will refund your money it it's a fake. Then I would send it to ANACS for grading; they will slab it if it is genuine, noting the cleaning or other damage on the label. If they say it's bogus, you can take their word for it. Then you can try to get that refund.
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Rest in Peace
 United States
4849 Posts |
Not in those words. He said it was an 1855 $3 gold piece, .900 gold and weighs 5.015 grams. I verified the weight and diameter tonight; both were dead on; so that is very encouraging. I'm not sure about the thickness, because I havent been able to find the specs on it. The coin is very thin, which I would expect it to be since it is approximately the size of a Jefferson nickle(slightly less diameter) and weighs about the same. I honestly have no reason to believe it is fake. I cant find anything noticably suspicious(other than the shiny texture which could be attributed to the coin being cleaned). If it is counterfeit, they sure did one heck of a job, and most likely used real gold. I probably will send it into ANACS eventually and will post pics when I can. I probably wont ever buy a high end coin uncertified again, but Ive read that people are NOW counterfeiting the PCGS cases effectively?!? How can you ever be 100% sure when buying a coin?
thanks for the input guys.
Edited by johnny54321
03/19/2008 11:18 pm
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Valued Member
United States
255 Posts |
Have you looked into the exact weights of a legit $3 gold coin? I'm at work so have no access to my books, but this would be the best start. Just b/c he said it shoulsd weight a particular amoiunt doesn't mean it should. Good luck figuring this out.
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Yes. I weighed the coin on a gold scale, and the weight checks out almost exact. The weight of the official coin is 5.02(+ or -_ grams via PCGS, and I've seen it stated as 5.015 grams on other official sites. I used many common coins as baselines to calibrate it(using their official weight specs via PCGS), so I'm certain it is the correct weight. Does anyone know if their are $3 gold coin fakes that are made out of real gold? Or platinum with gold plating? I've been searching for some sites related to $3 gold coin counterfeits, and have come up almost empty handed. It looks almost exactly like the 1855 $3 princess coin on the PCGS website...the surface even has a duller reflection around the lettering on the front of the coin, just like the PCGS one. The main difference is the India princess face and headband on my coin is more glossy. The face doesn't contrast to the surface the way the PCGS one does, though it almost has as much detail. I would post the link and some pics, but I dont think I'm allowed to do that as a new member. I'll just wait a little bit. I'm thinking about taking it to a dealer to look at.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Yes most of the fake threes are gold of the proper weight and fineness so those tests won't normally help you.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
heck if its the same weight and fineness then whose to say its counterfeit? I mean what reason would a counterfeiter have to make a coin out of the same thing that the original was made out of? I could see if it wasn't the same fineness and they added more lead or silver to it to make it weigh the same but to make it exactly of the same composition as the original doesn't make much sense to me
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Moderator
 United States
187637 Posts |
It makes sense if the numismatic value is much greater than the value of the gold. I do not know gold coins or their values, so don't assume I am talking about this particular example; I am just thinking out loud!  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
I tried to take pics of the coin, but none came out good at all. I'm not sure what else to do at this point other than send it in or have a dealer look at it. Does anyone have pics of fake $3 gold pieces?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
does your camera have a macro mode? it will usually look like a flower icon on most cameras. If it does turn that on and it should auto focus the camera for you and make your pictures look better
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
I tried that, but no can do. I would post the link of the auction I bought it from, but I'm not allowed to do that yet. I can tell you that I purchased it from the ebay power seller aboncom. I definitely took a chance with that auction and wouldnt have bought the coin had I known how heavily counterfeited they are. After getting a screwy deal with my Morgan "micro-O", I'm rethinking my ebay coin investments. I've made a few newbie mistakes...:-P I have gotten a few good coins off of ebay though...including an AU 1834 quarter eagle. btw, am I supposed to see a green camera icon to post pics? I don't have it displayed. thanks, John |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
Here you go.   Edited by halfabustisbetter
03/21/2008 12:13 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
yep. that would be it! The funky reflections are due to lighting, as the coin is actually way better looking in real life. The pendant is now off it, and it has a very uniform clean look...a lot more detail than is visible than in that pic. I wish I could capture a better pic of it. Anyways, the details in the hair are more "striking" than I see in other $3 gold coins, especially above the eye....although it isn't unlike some of the MS pieces I've looked at. potentially re-engraved? if so, it was done very nicely. It also seems like it has been cleaned or polished on the obverse. The reverse is immaculate, and nothing about it would make me question it's authenticity. The coin looks a lot "newer" in real life than most of my other gold coins. I hope that is because it was put in a pendant early on, and not really circulated like the others....or just cleaned...but I'm not an expert. However, I have been dilligently studying this coinage for a few weeks, so I'd like to think I know how it is supposed to look.
Edited by johnny54321
03/21/2008 01:33 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
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Replies: 89 / Views: 17,263 |
Posted 03/19/2008 12:19 pm
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