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Drastically Underweight 1971 Half Dollar- Thoughts?

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Earendil's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  12:07 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Earendil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I came across this half dollar while I was sorting through a box this evening. I thought it looked a little "off," so I decided to weigh the coin just to be on the safe side.

To my surprise, it is only 9.22 grams, which is slightly under 19% underweight. Does anyone have any idea what may have caused such a substantial amount of weight loss? As you can see by the pictures, the coin shows only average circulation wear underneath whatever debris is currently coating it.

If the information is of any use, this specific coin's physical dimensions appear to be identical to that of several other 1971 half dollars I measured it against. However, this coin has a universal silver/ non-clad appearance across all its exposed surfaces (including its rim).

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

Drastically-Underweight-1971-Half-Dollar--Thoughts?

Drastically-Underweight-1971-Half-Dollar--Thoughts?

Drastically-Underweight-1971-Half-Dollar--Thoughts?

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Edited by Earendil
12/02/2016 12:11 am
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Coindog's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coindog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It could have been made on quarter stock. Not sure if that would account for the weight lose or not.
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  01:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first thought was that it was left in an acid which removed a good portion of the exterior, but this does not have the appearance of an acid treated coin.

Next I considered it to be a contemporary counterfeit, which would actually make it more valuable than a genuine coin of that date. Kennedy counterfeits are very hard to find. But it doesn't show the typical surfaces of a cast counterfeit.

So perhaps there is that remote chance that it was struck on an improper blank, although I don't know what the weight variance might be.

Ill keep watching to see what the consensus might be on this oddity, although I can't give much help by only guessing what it isn't rather than what it is.
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spru's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  01:28 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did some calculations based on dimensions and weights I found and your Half is still lighter than quarter stock. I calculated 4.25 mm^3 per gram for the quarter and 4.46 mm^3 per gram for your Half. Hope this helps.
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SilverDon's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a partial clip on the obverse.
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  02:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does it have a copper core?
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see a lot of crud plus a mark at about 2:00 on the first pic where it looks like it was forcibly pried from another coin. Maybe it got *really* dirty and someone soaked it in vinegar for a month to extract the coins from the goo?
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trout1105's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  04:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin appears to be Fire damaged by the look of it.
Maybe that would account for the weight discrepancy.
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GR58's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  06:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would suggests having it tested to see what type of metal
it is. The more that you can confirm, the closer you might
get to figuring out what it is.

I am not sure why someone would fake a copper-nickel coin.
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davec13's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  07:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few counterfeit halfs that look very similar to the one posted. If you can find a local shop with and xrf scanner they should be able to tell you the exact composition so you'll know if it's real or counterfeit.

GR58 there was a big bust not long ago where people were sending in massive amounts of mutilated coins to the mint for destruction and getting paid by the weight of the shipment. The only reason the mint caught on was they had redeemed more half dollars than the mint ever minted. If it cost 3 to 4 cents to counterfeit and the government was paying them face value. That's not a bad scam.
Edited by davec13
12/02/2016 07:54 am
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Numisma's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
However, this coin has a universal silver/ non-clad appearance across all its exposed surfaces (including its rim).

My first thought was that the planchet was missing the core- just two cupronickel layers bonded together. However, I think the core must account for more than 19% of the weight, and the resulting thin planchet wouldn't strike up too well.

I'm leaning toward acid or fire damage.
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Dustin6's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It looks like some sort of damage. If this was a perfectly clean coin, We might think otherwise, but because there is a big hunk-a-junk all over the coin, it leads you to think it is damage
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BigSilver's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BigSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Davec13
That is very interesting. I wonder why they would not make overweight indtead of underweight counterfeits as they were getting paid by weight

It could have been someone trying to perfect the "art" of counterfeiting before going to the valuable coins.
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davec13's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  08:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add davec13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link to one of the many articles about the scam.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-co...ina.all.html
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Earendil's Avatar
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 Posted 12/02/2016  08:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earendil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It could have been made on quarter stock. Not sure if that would account for the weight lose or not.


Thanks for looking at it. The odd thing is, no part of the coin has the appearance of a normal clad coin. The entire thing is an odd silver color (including the rim).


Quote:
My first thought was that it was left in an acid which removed a good portion of the exterior, but this does not have the appearance of an acid treated coin.

Next I considered it to be a contemporary counterfeit, which would actually make it more valuable than a genuine coin of that date. Kennedy counterfeits are very hard to find. But it doesn't show the typical surfaces of a cast counterfeit.

So perhaps there is that remote chance that it was struck on an improper blank, although I don't know what the weight variance might be.

Ill keep watching to see what the consensus might be on this oddity, although I can't give much help by only guessing what it isn't rather than what it is.


Thank you for examining the coin. I do not believe it the coin came into contact with acid either, as I see no signs of pitting, nor any other indications the surfaces of the coin were compromised. There is just extensive physical damage.

I didn't realize contemporary counterfeits were made of non-silver coins. Do you know of any available resources on these? I'd definitely be interested in looking into that further.

That's one thought I had too, as I pondered all of the "options." The coin does sound like a clad one when it's dropped, but oddly enough, no part of it actually looks like one.


Quote:
I did some calculations based on dimensions and weights I found and your Half is still lighter than quarter stock. I calculated 4.25 mm^3 per gram for the quarter and 4.46 mm^3 per gram for your Half. Hope this helps.


Thanks! I guess we can rule that out, then.


Quote:
Looks like a partial clip on the obverse.


Yes, I saw that too. It's strange that the coin has so many "issues"!


Quote:
Does it have a copper core?


No, I see no signs of one. The rim is silver-colored too. In addition, there are countless nicks, scratches, chips, etc. in the coin, and underneath every one of them there is that strange, not-quite-actual-silver color.


Quote:
I see a lot of crud plus a mark at about 2:00 on the first pic where it looks like it was forcibly pried from another coin. Maybe it got *really* dirty and someone soaked it in vinegar for a month to extract the coins from the goo?


There is definitely a lot of junk around Kennedy's bust, but the layer itself is really thin. It is also crystalline in appearance, almost like some kind of mineral. But the coin itself shows no signs of pitting or etching, as I think would be the case with a soaked coin.


Quote:
The coin appears to be Fire damaged by the look of it. Maybe that would account for the weight discrepancy.


Thank you for looking at it. It's difficult to see in the pictures, but the blackened areas on the coin are actually thin and crystalline in appearance, and seem as if they could be rubbed off with a solvent. Oddly enough, they are also only present on one side of the coin; the other side exhibits only physical damage.


Quote:
I would suggests having it tested to see what type of metal
it is. The more that you can confirm, the closer you might
get to figuring out what it is.

I am not sure why someone would fake a copper-nickel coin.


I would definitely be interested in doing so, but will have to look into where I might be able to do that. I'll keep you posted!

Nor am I. There can't be much profit in doing so.


Quote:
I have a few counterfeit halfs that look very similar to the one posted. If you can find a local shop with and xrf scanner they should be able to tell you the exact composition so you'll know if it's real or counterfeit.

GR58 there was a big bust not long ago where people were sending in massive amounts of mutilated coins to the mint for destruction and getting paid by the weight of the shipment. The only reason the mint caught on was they had redeemed more half dollars than the mint ever minted. If it cost 3 to 4 cents to counterfeit and the government was paying them face value. That's not a bad scam.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try looking around and see if there are any possibilities in that respect.

That's actually the first thought I had when I weighed the coin and found out it was underweight by over 2 grams. This possibility would seem to be supported by the massive physical damage all over the coin, as well as the appearance of being struck from some kind of off-metal.


Quote:
My first thought was that the planchet was missing the core- just two cupronickel layers bonded together. However, I think the core must account for more than 19% of the weight, and the resulting thin planchet wouldn't strike up too well.

I'm leaning toward acid or fire damage.


Thanks for taking a look at it. In response to your statement about the core, I cannot actually see it through the rim. The rim itself is very thin and heavily nicked/ chipped. Underneath the chips, there is just that same off-silver color.

Underneath all of the damage, the strike itself does appear to be fairly regular; it's just the overall appearance of the coin that has us all puzzled!

I'm actually not sure about the fire or acid. The blackened areas are thin and crystalline in appearance, and I do not see any signs of bubbling, pitting, etching, etc. (as I think would be the case when the surfaces of the coin were attacked in some fashion).


Quote:
It looks like some sort of damage. If this was a perfectly clean coin, We might think otherwise, but because there is a big hunk-a-junk all over the coin, it leads you to think it is damage.


Thanks for looking at it. The coin has definitely seen better days, but I cannot imagine any number of nicks, scratches, etc. adding up to 20% of the overall weight of the coin. Just to see how much weight excessive circulation wear might strip away, I weighed a "bare disc of silver" Barber half dollar. It was about 1.4 grams off from the standard of 12.50 grams, yet this particular half dollar shows nowhere near that kind of wear.
Edited by Earendil
12/02/2016 09:06 am
Valued Member
Earendil's Avatar
United States
165 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2016  08:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earendil to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
ere is a link to one of the many articles about the scam.
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-co...ina.all.html


Thank you for the link; I remember reading about that scam last year. Upon weighing it, my first thought was that the coin was indeed one of the Chinese counterfeits that somehow made it back into circulation (especially considering how mutilated it appears to be). However, I figured it would be useful to post about the coin, too, so that all of the different options could be considered.
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