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 Replies: 18 / Views: 1,933 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
For US coins, there is a significant premium for toned coins. Brick and mortar dealers are catching on, tho there are still a couple shops that sell them for near book value. Unfortunately, very few local shops get their hands on the real rainbow beauties--anybody who knows what they have takes those to auction, where they can sell for several times the book value for the coin itself. And while there is a strong niche market for rainbow silver dollars, I noticed a few other denominations at auction that are getting a premium when the coins are toned. There are a couple flashy Jefferson nickels that are coming up next week at Great Collections, both worth $10 book, that are already getting bids at over $165 and $223. Is the world market the same? By that I mean BOTH of the following two questions: Are American buyers also paying large premiums for toned world coins? Are non-US buyers paying the same kinds of premiums? I've seen comments on other threads about some of the ridiculous prices placed on rare US coins vs rare British coins, so I wondered if American collectors are also more spendy when it comes to toners. |
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Moderator
 United States
34427 Posts |
I can only answer one of your questions: Quote:
Are American buyers also paying large premiums for toned world coins? No. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
1078 Posts |
Quote:
Are non-US buyers paying the same kinds of premiums? From my experience, no. And I wouldn't personally. Toned coins can look really nice, but I don't see many listed, and when they are, no real premiums, just for the toning. What seems to be the "best looking coins" are blast white with no traces of toning in the higher end shops. I can appreciate nicely toned coins, but I won't pay any large, or even moderate premium for one. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
790 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
Toned coins are a niche market and apparently a big thing right now in the US. One thing can be to wait until the hype is over (might not be during your lifetime though), or you can try to hunt for US toned coins outside the US: my experience with coin collecting is that coins usually have both the best availability and are the most expensive in or near their home country. Spence sort of confirms this with this statement on the prices of 'world coins' and premiums. As X2an states, we don't really have the thing for toned coins here. I can look for you, next time when I'm at one of my local coin shops, what have in toned US coins. I do know for certain that one of my 'local' coin shops in Berlin actually sells toned coins under the book value as he otherwise won't be able to sell them. Those are not American coins though. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
Thanks! If you see any really nice toning, snap a photo. I may snap them up.
Also, I just noticed you're from Norway. I happen to be on the lookout for old Norwegian coins bearing the name Haakon or Hakon (long story). My guess is that any coins old enough to be relevant to an old family story are probably way out of my price range, but if you see some online you might post a link.
I did see some Haakon VII coins for cheap on Vcoins and nearly bought them as stocking stuffers, but I didn't see enough in good condition to go around, and Haakon VII is really too recent to have anything to do with the family folklore.
Edited by twslisa
12/07/2016 09:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
I just got a sense of deja vu, which means I may already have asked you this question. If so I apologize. My short term memory can be really spotty as a result of chemo I had years ago.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
The trouble with the toned coins being popular at the moment is that there are many unscrupulous people Artificially toning coins using varying methods from heat, chemicals and other various methods to Force coins to tone unnaturally and rapidly.
All these methods including leaving coins on a windowsill or chemically infused folders/envelops are actually damaging the coins.
The vast majority of these AT coins are easily spotted by the experienced collectors But will fool the novice collector quite easily.
If too many of these AT coins enter the market then eventually that market will become "Soured" and values will fall accordingly.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
 with Trout. You only need to burn so many novice collectors who can't tell the difference between actual toning and induced toning (AT) before those collectors not only lose interest in toned coins, but in all coins. It takes quite a bit of time before most collectors realize that there are some coins that almost never appear with "rainbow toning" and a single dealer selling tons of those probably indicates that chemicals or heat or a combination of the two were involved in creating those colors. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
Agree. I'm getting where I can spot the difference most of the time, but the thing is, there are some REAL toners that look petty fake (check out the monster rainbows at the Jhon E. Cash site). Someone here advised me to stick with slabbed toners, but even the experts can be fooled (tho I reckon if AT is good enough to fool experts, it's unlikely to adversely affect the value--how is that different from blast white coins that were lightly dipped to achieve that silvery perfection?).
Also, if someone AT'd a coin by replicating the conditions that cause natural toning, e.g. Storing in an old Manila coin envelope, isn't the only real difference the owner's intention? The coin itself toned the same way the "natural" ones did.
I bought a "cull" Morgan in good condition (very little wear but also very little luster, probably dipped to death to remove "ugly" toning). The dealer I got it from runs an antique shop and only sells top value coins--he was going to sell this for the silver, so I bought it for $20. I happened to have an old Manila coin envelope so as an experiment I decided to stick it in there and see what happens. I'll never sell it--or if I do, I will definitely tell buyers how it came by the toning. But I'm curious to see whether I end up with a rainbow beauty. And if I do, again, how is it different than if someone unknowingly stored the coin in the same envelope and got a toner?
I've also been told by some dealers that they dip coins to get rid of toning. I told them to call me first from now on!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
790 Posts |
Also, most of the Scammers use QUICK AT methods, which I've heard of involve heat in some way. I've read about a few methods, but won't list them here (if anybody is really curious they can google it just as I did). Anyway, according to Jhon E. Cash, heat toned coins don't tone the same way--the color spectrums are different, and the toning flows over the devices differently. The examples I've seen of coins toned that way really aren't as attractive, in my view, as the ones that came by it sitting in mint bags and such for years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1316 Posts |
Regarding world coins, I don't see premiums. Sometimes a silver coin will have a attractive antique patina that can help it move faster. I don't see a craving for rainbow toned world coins like in the US market.
My biggest concern with especially rainbow toning is I doubt the chemical reactions that have resulted in the color have stopped and stabilized such that the color and corresponding premium will hold in the future.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
One thing that collectors of non-American coins need to know is that the US market is completely different from any other. I don't mean this in a negative way; it is just an observation. The prices realized, the number of collectors, what their tastes are, and so forth. So it is no surprise that toning has no premium outside of the US. @UltraRant is correct that US coins are cheaper outside the US. That is certainly the case in Canada, and they are probably the most common foreign coins available here, in part because they always circulated, in small numbers, alongside ours. However, the selection is quite limited compared to the US. |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
Quote:
Also, I just noticed you're from Norway. I happen to be on the lookout for old Norwegian coins bearing the name Haakon or Hakon (long story). My guess is that any coins old enough to be relevant to an old family story are probably way out of my price range, but if you see some online you might post a link. You have asked me about Norwegian coins, but not yet about coins explicitly bearing the name Haakon. If it's just about having the name on a coin then I think I can help you quite fast, as there are actually a few 1 Krone coins which should come quite cheap bearing that name. Fortunately for you, the guy has been king of Norway for half a century, so he left quite a heritage when it comes to coins. If you also want a portrait, then we're looking more into the more expensive silver coins. If we're talking bout older coins with the name Haakon (before Norwegian independence), then we're indeed talking about the even more expensive coin range. Feel free to PM me to discuss the details and I'll see what I can do! EDIT Just checked to see when Haakon VI (the Haakon-predecessor of Haakon VII) had his reign again. Seems like the guy died in 1380, aged 40. I'm not sure if there's any coinage left of him and if there is, it's probably quite out of my price league. Edited by UltraRant
12/07/2016 1:13 pm
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Valued Member
Germany
303 Posts |
I guess here in Germany toning contributes to the general eye-appeal of a coin as long as it is smooth. But I am not sure if there is any premium that collectors would pay for it. In case of very old coins I assume toning is not an advantage whereas no tone on a coin could be an indicator for a cleaning process and thereby a disadvantage.
@Ultrarant: Which Berlin based coinshop are you talking about? In my experience there is none that offers book prices but many that price out book value times 2.
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17972 Posts |
Toned coins have never been as fashionable in the UK as in the US. A specimen with a really nice tone might attract a small premium, but I think most UK collectors prefer their Uncirculated coins to be blast white. Of course, slabbed coins are also still something of a novelty in the UK. I have definitely noticed trends in UK collecting over the past few years - early 20th-century silver coins in EF or better seem to be getting much more expensive, and I've also noticed that Georgian and Victorian copper coins in the VG - F range, which were almost considered junk box items a few years ago, are now usually sorted out by dealers, put into individual flips and sold at prices that amaze me. I think people are just starting to realise how scarce a lot of these coins really are: they were circulated so heavily that most of them just got worn flat!
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Replies: 18 / Views: 1,933 |
Posted 12/07/2016 06:50 am
