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 Replies: 18 / Views: 1,970 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
I say MS-62. What thinketh thou?   |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
The reverse bears evidence to the brief circulation. AU58 and extremely attractive as such. I think MS62 would be gradeflation / slider bump but could happen at a TPG. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36905 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
AU53 with great eye appeal from afar. There is what appears as a deep scratch in the obverse field, somewhat hidden by tbe toning. The cheek is pretty marked up and then there are all those marks on the neck and date from mishandling. The toning takes your eye away from these flaws but they are there in plain sight. Still worth a premium price for the colorful toning from those who love that aspect in coins.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2850 Posts |
MS62. Not seeing any wear.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
AU53 with great eye appeal from afar. There is what appears as a deep scratch in the obverse field, somewhat hidden by tbe toning. The cheek is pretty marked up and then there are all those marks on the neck and date from mishandling. The toning takes your eye away from these flaws but they are there in plain sight. Still worth a premium price for the colorful toning from those who love that aspect in coins. That is not how AU grades work. They are based on the amount of remaining luster and the level of wear present on the high points. This coin has 100% luster and little, if any, wear on the high points (hard for me to tell with Morgans). The deep scratch you mention, if you are talking about the mark below the chin, is actually just a normal bagmark that had toned a darker color than the surrounding field, giving the illusion of a deep scratch. The "sratches" in the date area are not scratches at all. I looked at them under a 10x loupe and I saw no depression in those marks. I think this coin rubbed against another coin or some paper and the very thin patina (around 500 nanometers thick) was inadvertently wiped away. Since the reverse toning pattern suggests this coin was stored in paper, the paper wiping away the patina seems entirely plausible. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
The deep scratch I was pointing out appears to me a little way to the left of liberty's upper lip in tbe field. It is half way covered by the orange toning. I do not have the coin in hand and could be wrong.
As far as I judge AU, an otherwise MS61-62 would not be AU58 because it has a hint of wear. An AU58 coin is a very clean coin that has a hint of wear. Large coins with a lot of chatter from bag marks would preclude in my opinion. If I saw no wear, this would be an MS61-62 coin.
According to PCGS, circulated coins come down to 70% wear and 30% eye appeal. Although the toning shoots this coin up in subjective eye appeal, the chatter, bagmarks and distracting features detract from the objective technical grade. Still a great, beautiful coin.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
12/15/2016 11:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
The deep scratch I was pointing out appears to me to the immediate left of liberty's upper lip. It is half way covered by the orange toning. I do not have the coin in hand and could be wrong. I'm sorry, but I still do not see the scratch you speak of... Quote:
As far as I judge AU, an otherwise MS61-62 would not be AU58 because it has a hint of wear. An AU58 coin is a very clean coin that has a hint of wear. Large coins with a lot of chatter from bag marks would preclude in my opinion. If I saw no wear, this would be an MS61-62 coin. Again, AU coins are judged by the amount of luster remaining, not the number of bagmarks. Quote:
According to PCGS, circulated coins come down to 70% wear and 30% eye appeal. Although the toning shoots this coin up in subjective eye appeal, the chatter, bagmarks and distracting features detract from the objective technical grade. Still a great, beautiful coin. When I was learning how to grade, I had heard of these formulas as well. I tried using them, but I quickly learned that they do not work and are not used in the market. Just food for thought: how can you assign a hard furmulaic value to something based on opinion like eye appeal. My father would give this coin a 0 for the eye appeal category because he does not like this kind of toning, while someone else would give it a full score. Two different grades, same formula. Formulas are supposed to work consistently all the time, so therefore this one does not work. At least it wouldn't for my science classes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3516 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2189 Posts |
Looks like MS-62, I see no wear on the coin.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Joining the big huge camp of 62, and since there are already so many tents pitched in 62-land, I'm down in the wet area by the swamp. Rats.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11917 Posts |
I' m not trying to be argumentative but want to take this chance to flesh out my inderstandinv. According to the ANA the says: Quote:
Coins
By James Bucki, Coins Expert
Updated December 12, 2016.
Definition
A circulated coin graded AU-58 will show the barest trace of wear that may be seen on one or more of the high points of the design. [Bold]No major detracting contact marks will be present[/bold] and the coin will have attractive eye appeal and nearly full luster, often with the appearance of a higher grade I think that the chatter, and the bagmarks on the cheek at a focal point qualify as well as discolofation in parallel lines. Some of the bagmarks arent just breaks in the luster but marks into the metal at magnification. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Quote:
I think that the chatter, and the bagmarks on the cheek at a focal point qualify as well as discolofation in parallel lines. Some of the bagmarks arent just breaks in the luster but marks into the metal at magnification. Interesting excerpt. I think the key words are "major" and "distracting." This is why it is so hard to learn coin grading as it based on opinion. In my opinion, the things you point out are neither major nor distracting, though you may differ. However, this level of damage is generally considered acceptable for the grade level as you can hardly expect perfection from a circulated coin. That is just a consensus opinion. You can have your own opinion, of course, but the majority of numismatists may disagree with you. |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18720 Posts |
eye appeal imo is not there. the toning is quite uneven and the coin has some minor rim issues. I'm at low MS...MS61
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Replies: 18 / Views: 1,970 |
Posted 12/15/2016 08:01 am
