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Indentifying A Greek Silver Coin

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prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  11:20 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Friends,
I'm having trouble identifying this coin.
can you help me?
Thanks, Paulo

measures:
0,5g; 9mm

Indentifying-A-Greek-Silver-Coin

Indentifying-A-Greek-Silver-Coin
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a widows mite, maybe. I am no pro though.
John1
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prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, friend. But I believe it would be AE in that case.
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John1's Avatar
United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  1:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you Google widows mite images you will see what looks similar. Give it a bit and a pro will help you.
John1
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prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you my friend!!
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The surface looks more like it's made of lead than silver, could be some type of ancient token.
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34398 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not super knowledgeable about Prutahs and Leptons, but two things are odd about this coin:

1. The star/wheel design element appears to be on both sides. I thought that these coins should have an anchor on one side and the star on the other. Maybe the first pic actually shows an anchor?

2. This coin is made from a white metal (silver or lead I don't know). I thought that these were all made from bronze. @rsferreira, could you determine the size and mass to figure out the density of the metal?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello friends! Thanks for listening. The coin is silver for sure. I agree it's not a prutah. It looks like an obol .. But I still do not know which one. I received in a lot of Greek coins. The dimensions: 0.5g; 9mm
Thank you very much!
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34398 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a Trihemiobol on Wildwinds that has a somewhat similar wheel pattern on one side along with a patterned round Macedonian shield on the other side that kinda looks like what you have. Here is the link (8th one down):

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/gree...donia/i.html


Hopefully Bob will weigh in soon as he is much better at this stuff than I am...

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Valued Member
prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It really can be the one that pointed me to Wild Winds. Mine has one less rod, but may have lost that lightning ....
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2017  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to chime in with an opinion or two:


Quote:
The surface looks more like it's made of lead than silver


Interestingly, Alexander Jannaeus did issue lead coins during a short period of his reign, including of the star/anchor variety. The lead version is, specifically, the Hendin 1153.a. (Many folks call these lepta, but Hendin still refers to them in his 5th edition as prutot) But, in any event, I believe prsferreira is probably correct that the above coin is silver.

To me, the obvious casting sprue (right side of the coin in the upper pic) suggests Judaea and not a Greek state that issued stars with rays. It's very common to see this shaped sprue on widow mites. And, while stars with eight rays were more common, it is not uncommon to see widow's mites with six rays.


Quote:
Maybe the first pic actually shows an anchor?


I believe so, Dave. In some examples, the "arms" of the anchors stretched pretty wide, and occasionally there is also sometimes what Hendin refers to as a "nipple" raised in the center. This was actually from the hole drilled into stone from which the blank flans were cast. This is seen in this example, below, (incidentally, also showing a star with six rays) and in the OP coin.

Indentifying-A-Greek-Silver-Coin

Here's what I think: I could very well be way off, but the surface of the OP coin screams cast to me. More specifically I believe the pocked/pitted surface we see suggests sand casting. In my opinion what we have here is a modern silver cast of an Alexander Jannaeus prutah/lepton, Hendin 1153. I don't know if it was done to deceive - seems that casting in bronze would make more sense if that were the case. Or perhaps just as an experiment by someone?

Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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prsferreira's Avatar
Brazil
146 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prsferreira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Hello friends.
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I really enjoyed the comments. I found the thesis of Mr. Bob L.
Indeed, his thesis coincides with the characteristics of the coin.
I still do not feel completely convinced, but the debate has made me clearer.
I love this forum !!
Thank you!
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34398 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2017  7:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Indeed, his thesis coincides with the characteristics of the coin.


@bob is the best!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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