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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,753 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Should this rim and these denticles affect the grade..? Is it just because of the very late stage of the die..? All or any expert opinions..? Pics are taken through 2 sheets of plastic..and the bright lines and light marks are in the plastic.. Thanks...  . Edited by DEVLEC
01/24/2017 11:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5586 Posts |
Is the reverse also weakly struck? The denticles look like a strike made with not enough pressure, but the portrait seems strong. In my experience, a coin weakly struck on one side may be much sharper on the other.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3234 Posts |
Yes Okiecoiner,
The reverse is basically showing the same lack of detail but only in the denticles again.
The rev is as good or better than the obv. Just wondering why the weakness and actual rough appearance shows in these denticles.?
Both sides show the same rough and weak appearance in the denticles...and then the rest of the cent is great and very sharp.
Rob states that this obv die at this stage of striking 58's was in the middle of it's very long life. It was used in many different 58 reverses...
These denticles really have me confused..
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Edited by DEVLEC
01/24/2017 1:58 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5586 Posts |
All I can think of is a planchet not flat or thicker in the middle and thin at the edges.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
If it is full circle on both sides, I am guessing it had more to do with the planchet than the dies. Perhaps this planchet never went through the milling machine and, consequently, its edges were not raised before striking.
http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Valued Member
Canada
414 Posts |
Quote:
Perhaps this planchet never went through the milling machine and, consequently, its edges were not raised before striking. @ Bosox, did the 1858 and 1859 planchets go through an upsetting mill? I thought I read somewhere they did not but I would regard your answer as concrete. @ DEVLAC, here is a link to a similar 1859 I posted in 2015. I still have the coin and have debated sending it to CCCS to see how Louis would slab it. The denticles are very similar to yours and the weight was just 0.1 less than normal. http://goccf.com/t/236985 |
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Valued Member
Canada
414 Posts |
Edited by SelectCoinCanada
01/25/2017 10:14 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
Yes, I know they were. I was saying perhaps this particular planchet was not.
Another possibility, as previously mentioned, is low strike pressure, but I think you would see a more intact rim, if this were the cause.
Edited by bosox
01/25/2017 10:24 am
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Valued Member
Canada
414 Posts |
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Yes, I know they were. I was saying perhaps this particular planchet was not. I was only questioning my own memory, not your expertise, as I said I would regard your answer as firm as concrete so thank you for the clarification.  The situation never crossed my mind but it would certainly explain the reason for the weak denticles, thanks again for your input it gives me some answers about my own coin. @ Devlac, sorry for the hijack, I will certainly keep you posted if I decide to get mine slabbed. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
In the pictures I have seen of the milling machines used by The Royal Mint, I think it was possible for a blank to go through tilted, or on its edge, and not have the machine upset its edge. Edited by bosox
01/25/2017 10:51 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1923 Posts |
I have one that is similar but its a 1859 and its weight is 4.7 and it seems to be the same size as other 59's when in a stack of them. I believe it to be a Haxby PC-59-322 x 32 + G3 for the Haxby web-site followers   Edited by papeldog
01/25/2017 12:35 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:@ DEVLAC, here is a link to a similar 1859 I posted in 2015. I still have the coin and have debated sending it to CCCS to see how Louis would slab it. The denticles are very similar to yours and the weight was just 0.1 less than normal. http://goccf.com/t/236985 There is no hijack going on ,..only a great exchange of needed info here.. I really appreciate the link and feedback to more of the same affect from SelectCoinCanada and papeldog. I should know all of the proper steps in preparing these planchets but I have to admit, I don't get it all of the time. But great lessons are being taught right here..and right now. Thanks Okie and Rob..always great input on my endless questions.... Now here is that reverse. Very similar denticles..   Edited by DEVLEC
01/25/2017 2:36 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1349 Posts |
One other point. These blanks were made by Heaton. It is unclear if they upset the rims before delivery to London for coining, or whether The Royal Mint did so. In any case, I think their milling machines were similar to those in use in London. http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
Edited by bosox
01/25/2017 4:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
Quote:
I will certainly keep you posted if I decide to get mine slabbed. Not to worry, right now it's in an ICCS newer cert with 3 letters and an MS 63 R and B grading..and no mention of the denticles.. The front of the Charlton from 2013 on shows a few varieties of this 58. Strangely, they did not mention this tough but well known variety on the cert. Rob explains this 58 (RA2/OF1) very well in his "The 1858 Provincial Cents of Canada". A must have book for Vicky cent collectors.. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3234 Posts |
How would PCGS possibly grade this Full Vine Full Stem cent..?
Would they include the Turner RA2/OF1 designation on it seeing as it's much tougher than the usual RA3 FVFS that show up so often..
Opinions anyone....?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
PCGS does not recognize the Full Vine variety as far as I know
Edited by canadian-varieties
02/18/2017 9:19 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,753 |
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Posted 01/24/2017 1:57 pm
