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 Replies: 32 / Views: 4,291 |
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
Here is a portion of an article by Numismatic News dated May 23, 2011 that was posted in another thread: Quote: "Dr. Dubay also showed photographs of one of the largest fake coin factories in China, the Big Tree Coin Factory in Fujian Province, owned and operated by Lin Ciyun. The presses in this factory were originally used in a U.S. Mint facility, then transferred to China in the early 1900s for their coinage production needs. Later, in the mid 1950s, the Chinese government scrapped the presses and sold them to private buyers. Mr. Lin bought at least some of the presses and now uses them to produce (by his admission) over 100,000 forged coins per month. With the assistance of a handful of expert machinists, he is able to strike coins at exactly the same pressure and technical specifications as those used in 19th century U.S. mints." The fact that China is producing such large numbers of counterfeits is actually turning me away from some areas of the hobby. This one facility is producing 100,000 fakes a month! How does the collector protect oneself from the dishonest? How many fakes will it take to remove all trust and crater prices for bars and raw coins? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1188 Posts |
That's very scary. If they are using real equipment from the US mint could you even tell the difference between the fake and an original coin?
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Valued Member
United States
121 Posts |
I have wondered the same thing about 3D printers. I doubt one of the $2500 models would produce a convincing fake, but the $30,000 models?
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Remember the old proverb fellas, " A fool and his money are soon parted". You really gotta know how deep the water is before you jump off that cliff, edjakate yo'selfs!
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Pillar of the Community
Poland
3201 Posts |
At this rate the often-seen statement "Most of the coins are genuine, but (...)" will soon be out of date.
So is specialization on a narrow range of coins the only solution for the future? Or can we expect that technology will somehow help to detect the fakes in a few years' time?
Edited by DL20K
02/01/2017 05:36 am
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Valued Member
 United States
112 Posts |
The other thread noted they are counterfeiting common cents from the 1950s and modern nickles.
If this is true every raw coin is suspect. If they have actual mint presses how can the fakes
be detected?
When fashion companies or watch manufacturers detect counterfeits they shut them down because
it is bad for the brand. I wonder if our mint does the same?
Hopefully, our new administration will address this with our overseas "friends" while at
the same time enforcing harsh penalties for those that knowingly import fakes into our country to deceive buyers for profit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3210 Posts |
Stuff like fake coin operations need to be shut down, dismantled and people arrested. China is the leading counterfeiting country in the world. Their government lets them do whatever they want as long as it makes them money
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Valued Member
Canada
343 Posts |
Don't see China shutting down these places within their own borders anytime soon. And outside countries have no authority to shut them down either.
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
I always thought I was safe from counterfeiters because I only collect raw coins , common and semi common . I am now worried because 50+ years of collecting experience might not be enough to tell their fakes ( the Chinese ) from the real McCoy's .  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4085 Posts |
Can they get planchets from the 19th Century? Can they account for 100+ years of age? They may be able to account for this but this is another way to detect fakes.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
Can they get planchets from the 19th Century? Can they account for 100+ years of age? They may be able to account for this but this is another way to detect fakes. All they need to do is to use scrap US coins and overstrike them to produce a coin with exactly the same alloy as the target coin and as many of the 100+ year old coins are still "miraculously" Blast white then the ageing/toning isn't a real problem. If toning is required then there are plenty of artificial toning experts around that can take care of that problem without too much trouble. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
If you actually see the results of those factories, and we see them almost every day on this forum, most of them can be identified as fake in one single second by anyone who has a slight knowledge of the type. There have been counterfeit coins since the beginning of coin manufacture 2500 years ago. 30 years ago you really had to know your 1914-D and 1909-S VDB ( LWC) to prevent buying a fake. 40 years ago if you bought a 1916-D Mercury dime, you had to know exactly where the mint mark was, or it could be a "laid on" D. They were "making" 1895 Morgan dollars with a little skill in removing a mint mark 60 years ago. Counterfeiting isn't something that is "OH WOW" new. Knowledge is the key to avoiding a counterfeit. |
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
The difference is now they are counterfeiting common cents from the 1950s and modern nickles on an industrial scale using mint presses.
It hardly seems even worth it? How much can they make on a common cent or a nickle?
Part of the problem is the fact that the US Post office made a deal to bring these goods from China into our county for rock bottom shipping costs. I think they are selling things to us for less than it costs to make and ship them. Furthermore, I think it has to do employment for the Chinese. They don't seem to care if they are making a profit as long as people are working.
Exporting things for less than the cost of production used to be called dumping.
I think it is damaging to our hobby and if it is allowed to continue it may affect prices...
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I do not disagree with your thoughts, Troy, but we are slipping a bit toward a political discussion.
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Moderator
 United States
188130 Posts |
Yes, let us tread carefully here.
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
Troy, one thing you've forgotten, the original dies have #1) been destroyed by US Mint employees per US Law, #2) if any. "original" dies exist(ed), after being used 100,000+ times would wear out, causing errors(die cracks,etc.) new to what we know of the era coins. Just because the mechanical press is the same, the craftsmanship (die making) isn't.  w/ Mocking/Kenkat, just because a pound of pennies is melted for raw materials, there will be enough mistakes to identify the fakes. With today's technology it may be easier to produce fakes, but on the other side make them easier to catch! Knowledge is the key, that's why it is soooo very necessary in today's world to "look before you leap" on high $ coins, trust your gut, the "something's funny about..." syndrome! Just reread this, yea, "Mistakes identify Fakes"...now I'm going to have to learn more about this! Edited by Crazyb0
02/01/2017 12:14 pm
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Replies: 32 / Views: 4,291 |
Posted 01/31/2017 10:53 pm
