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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,470 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2910 Posts |
As someone who has collected coins for 45 years now, it's kind of appalling to see how incorrect price guides have gotten for modern coins. Circulated coins in almost all grades have been largely ignored by these guides. When I first started collecting it wasn't like this. Whether it be Lincoln Cents, Jefferson nickels, or modern clad coinage, there is some serious updating needed in our coin pricing guides. For example, I can routinely get $8 for a roll of circulated 1971 Philly nickels on ebay, and $12 for a roll of XF/AU 2009-Ds... Circulated rolls of 2009-P nickels (I have yet to accumulate a roll) routinely go for $40 there. When you go to Coin World, or any other site I know of, pretty much ALL Jefferson nickels have "generic" prices for circulated grades (VG-AU) from 1958-D forward... As the aforementioned coins show, the "generic" prices given in the guides for them are totally incorrect. There are many other examples such as the 1982-1983 dated coins for ALL denominations...  With the above in mind, is there a way to fix this? Is there someone in charge of one of the major publications we can contact? I'm so tired of trying to manually figure out what circulated modern coins are TRULY worth. CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17901 Posts |
John - I find the situation with British coins is much the same. Coin Yearbook 2017 leaves dashes in the price columns for many modern British coins that nevertheless have collector value.
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
219 Posts |
 ....and in particular Jefferson nickels. I can search 120 rolls a week without finding a 2009, but they are still listed at a $.05 value. Someone still thinks the Mint is going to flood the market. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2910 Posts |
Quote:
John - I find the situation with British coins is much the same. Coin Yearbook 2017 leaves dashes in the price columns for many modern British coins that nevertheless have collector value. Thanks for that, NumisRob. I had no idea... but then again, I don't have a lot of British coins - mostly just lots of Canadian and American. I'm still waiting to find my first British Large Penny in a roll of halves. While this price list is a very good start, it still doesn't address the issues with the '71 Philly or 2009 dated nickels. Quote:.... and in particular Jefferson nickels. I can search 120 rolls a week without finding a 2009, but they are still listed at a $.05 value. Someone still thinks the Mint is going to flood the market. I totally agree, Wildhare... Which is why I chose the Jefferson nickels as my example. At my last CRH update, I was finding a 2009-P about every 7.14 boxes worth. I have found about 30 of them in around 450,000 coins searched over the past year. Unless someone is hoarding the coins (like the 1955-S cent where one man owned SEVEN MILLION examples), I don't see them getting any easier to find. CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Edited by John77
02/09/2017 08:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Essentially the problem is most of the hobby are modern bashers. Even if there were someone publishing a price guide who wasn't a basher most of his customers still hate moderns and don't want to see anything to encourage these markets; like accurate price guides. So they maintain the fiction that an AU-58 1983-P quarter that might sell on ebay for upward of $25 is worth a quarter or fifty cents. I battled this back in the early '90's when the BU prices were all listed at a little over face value and had some success getting it fixed but now I half wish I had left it alone. Perhaps some publisher would have tried to make an accurate guide and all the other would have been forced to follow suit. As it is ALL of the price guides are tentative, speculative, and worthless causing these markets to suffer dramatically. Nobody will want to pay the going rate on a coin when the guides say it's just pocket change and they just got burned on pocket change that the guide lists for big bucks. In a few years maybe ebay will print guides based on prices realized and put Krause and RedBook out of business. In their defense these markets are simply tiny in comparison to classics so they don't want to put the time and effort into coins nobody cares about. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2910 Posts |
Thanks for your insight, cladking. With certain coins such as Lincolns, Indians, and V and Buffalo nickels, the current price guides are all but meaningless... I rarely get an offer, let alone a sale, on items I list at 80-90% of what they are supposedly worth... Yet silver coins and Jeffersons seem to almost always go for more than what the listed prices are. And with silver coins, again we have the problem with price guides not listing values for circulated coins... stuff like 1946-S quarters and 1950-S dimes are always quick movers for me at 2-3 times spot value. I've actually thrown around the idea of publishing my own price guides for modern coins... and since I have a good amount of free time, it's something I think about more with each passing day... I've been starting to put up "random" rolls of coins on ebay which I think may be worth a premium just to get a feel for what the real market truly is for these coins... To me, a price guide with REAL values for these coins can only help the hobby as it would encourage people to look for these coins (as they did when I first got into the hobby)... CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Edited by John77
02/09/2017 11:06 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
Excellent question John77!NumisMedia's Fair Market Value (FMV) price guide is my favorite (short URL: CoinPrices.org), but unless I missed it somehow, it is not based on ebay sales. See the definition of FMV on the site. Quote:In a few years maybe ebay will print guides based on prices realized and put Krause and RedBook out of business. That would be a smart business move for ebay, although they are so focused on trying to change into a retail sales giant like Amazon.com, that they probably won't see the potential. Quote:
I've actually thrown around the idea of publishing my own price guides for modern coins ... To me, a price guide with REAL values for these coins can only help the hobby as it would encourage people to look for these coins (as they did when I first got into the hobby) I have thought about that too, but I don't have enough time to do it right. I agree that it would be a gift to the average coin collector ... and hopefully you could make a little money along the way too. ;o) ~ Mark P.S. John77 - send me a message if you'd like--you have messages blocked so I cannot send one to you--I'm happy to share my ideas with you on how to develop such a price guide. Edited by dd27
02/09/2017 1:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2910 Posts |
Thanks, dd27...
I had no idea that I had messages blocked... didn't mean to have them off... You should be able to send me one now. I'd love to hear your ideas.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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Moderator
United States
187702 Posts |
Quote:NumisMedia's Fair Market Value (FMV) price guide is my favorite (short URL: CoinPrices.org), but unless I missed it somehow, it is not based on ebay sales. See the definition of FMV on the site. John1 was listing two sources, not saying that one was the other. |
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Valued Member
United States
219 Posts |
Great thread.....would love to hear more and future ideas if they are not private.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2910 Posts |
Thanks, Wildhare... A couple of samples of my idea and what some prices *might* look like... a work in progress.  CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
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Valued Member
United States
219 Posts |
I like your idea. I think it is much more realistic than 10,10,10,10,10,10 for 60 years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote:Thanks for your insight, cladking. With certain coins such as Lincolns, Indians, and V and Buffalo nickels, the current price guides are all but meaningless... I rarely get an offer, let alone a sale, on items I list at 80-90% of what they are supposedly worth... Yet silver coins and Jeffersons seem to almost always go for more than what the listed prices are. And with silver coins, again we have the problem with price guides not listing values for circulated coins... stuff like 1946-S quarters and 1950-S dimes are always quick movers for me at 2-3 times spot value. Yes. They list almost all the old coins at inflated prices and sometimes wildly inflated prices. Moderns are usually listed at a tiny fraction of true value but just to confuse people they sometimes list them too high. Even worse they don't list moderns at all in the grades they most commonly trade. They don't mention things like most 1969 mint sets are tarnished and pristine sets will bring more. They don't mention that they lower the standards for tough dates like the '82-P quarter so what they call MS-65 is a poorly struck coin from highly worn dies. Indeed this tends to even apply to coins PCGS calls MS-67. Values of moderns from all over the world are exploding higher but the US market trails by years. Soviet, Indian, and Chinese moderns are up 20 to 1000 fold but if you believe the price guides the US coins are almost all common. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote:
A couple of samples of my idea and what some prices *might* look like... a work in progress. I like your guide so far. The ironic thing is the 1971 nickel is scarcer than the '50-D. Indeed, there are probably more '50-D nickels than there are 1971 nickels above VF condition. And the '71's aren't as well made. Yes, it is a well made date by modern standards but not as good as the '50-D. The '71 nickel is only common in VG condition and if you try to find one you might get the idea that it's not very common. Lots of people are waking up now. It's not just anecdotal reports any longer but actual price movements. Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
666 Posts |
Edited by dd27
02/10/2017 7:53 pm
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,470 |
Posted 02/09/2017 04:32 am
