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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,942 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
I acquired this last week from a reputable dealer with whom I deal regularly (this being in person, not online). He had gotten it as part of an older collection, in which it was actually misidentified as a 1933 when in fact it's dated 1934.   This particular design replaced the 1932 version that had three birds flying over the junk, and a sunrise (set?) to the right. That coin, even with well over 2 million made, is considered a bonafide rarity that at auction can fetch five figures. For this succeeding variety, despite really enormous mintages (over 46 million in 1933 and almost 129 million in 1934, plus another 30 million produced by the U.S. Mint in 1949 of the 1934 dated ones) they nevertheless also tend to be a little bit on the pricey side in mint state, say, $100 and up. Are they in fact scarce relative to the quantity struck? Was there an abnormally high rate of attrition that would account for this? I can't find any material that relates the history of this issue in sufficient detail to gain an understanding of what factors contribute to its substantial present day valuation. I also don't know how or if the later U.S. struck ones (for Taiwan, I presume) can be differentiated from the 1934 Chinese made ones. As often happens with coins rhat carry even a modest numismatic premium, the type appears to be fairly frequently counterfeited. I don't actually have too much concern about the authenticity of my example - it weighs in at 26.58 grams against an official specification of 26.71 grams, albeit I believe my example's slightly oversized at 39.5 mm in diameter. I can't find any reason to doubt that it's made of silver, although I also note a discrepancy in the silver content among various sources, some stating it ought to be .900 fine, others only .880, and I've no idea which is correct. Colligo ergo sum
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Valued Member
Canada
117 Posts |
The coin shows Yr23 = 1934
So many fake coins in the market b/c the profit margin is very high. Bullion value for silver dollar is around $10USD but the market price is $60 to $xx,000. Cheap quality fake coins use copper alloy + plated silver, high quality fake coins use real sterling silver. Unless you know the old Chinese coins very well, otherwise, I won't recommend people buying the coins, especially silver dollars.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Lucky Cuss While you may have hit a genuine example chances are not great even from a reputable dealer.
If you read Kann's 1954 book on Chinese silver coins you can get an idea for where all of the originals went. They were melted wholesale to dispose of silver bullion. So mintage figures are essentially worthless. Auction appearances and tables of grades encapsulated is a better indication.
Silver numismatic forgeries are a problem so actual silver is also no guarantee.
Initial tests I would start with:
1. Is the coin magnetic? If it is FAKE.
2. Weight? If it weighs outside a range of 26.4 - 26.7 grams be extremely suspicious.
3. Density? 10.30 no deviation. Become suspicious at 10.29 or lower. Fake at 10.20 down.
4. XRF? 90% silver 10% copper rounded to nearest 1 %. If XRF accurate for trace (20ppm) NO RARE EARTH elements or materials used for electric conductivity additives.
Finally check the edge closely - you are looking for a collared strike - not a ring die or parallel bar die application. No overlaps, no two or three part collar dies
no split top reeds, no split tail reeds.
Edited by swamperbob
02/15/2017 6:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
If you read Kann's 1954 book on Chinese silver coins you can get an idea for where all of the originals went. They were melted wholesale to dispose of silver bullion. So mintage figures are essentially worthless. I'm not familiar with that book, but you've answered one of my questions. Quote:
Is the coin magnetic? Not in the least. Quote:
Weight? If it weighs outside a range of 26.4 - 26.7 grams be extremely suspicious. As I said, it comes in at 26.58 grams. Quote:
Finally check the edge closely - you are looking for a collared strike - not a ring die or parallel bar die application. No overlaps, no two or three part collar dies no split top reeds, no split tail reeds. The reeding is gorgeous - absolutely no splits or overlaps whatsoever. Determining its specific gravity probably wouldn't be as conclusive for authentication as an analysis via xray fluorescence, but that latter procedure have to wait for now. Just for giggles, here's the 2x2 it came in -  Not that it should be taken to prove anything, but it's suggestive that the coin was originally bought qute some time back. Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
02/16/2017 08:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The price on the holder is reflective of a market that is decades old. I pay more than that for decent forgeries.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Since the subject of the edge reeding was brought up, I thought I ought to post a picture showing what it looks like.  As I said earlier, it's very uniform all the way around, so if there were any overlaps, then the segments meshed more perfectly than would seem feasible. Does the appearance of the reeding give anybody a basis upon which to opine as to whether this specimen is a true 1934 Chinese issue or from the 1949 U.S. Mint restriking? Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Lucky cuss The reeding certainly looks better than the typical forgery. I would need to do some research to tell the reeding type. However, the Chinese did own an old press purchased from the US mint at Philadelphia so perhaps the collar might have come from the same source. If I find anything definitive I will write.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
The reeding certainly looks better than the typical forgery. If a fake, the coin as a whole is certainly as well executed as would seem humanly possible. I just can't find anything upon which to fault it, and I'm generally very suspicious about material of this nature. Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I have checked my files - I find nothing genuine or counterfeit that seems to match the reed design exactly.
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,942 |
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Posted 02/15/2017 6:06 pm
