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 Replies: 14 / Views: 4,583 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18664 Posts |
here's the question of the day...
what is the difference between Uncirculated and Mint State and can a coin be found in circulation and still be considered Mint State?
Some background:
old school there was never a point grading system. everything was a grade of AU, UNC, BU and Gem BU. there was a distinct difference between AU and UNC. One was in circulation at some point and the other was not. with todays point system there is now a point of contention with the addition of what is now termed "Mint State".
this begs the question, is it possible to have a coin that was lightly circulated and not show any signs of it and be considered Mint State and therefore be graded as an MS coin?
one last point...if you find a coin in circulation that shows no signs of being circulation and you do not declare that you found it in circulation, is it MS?
Definition: A mint state coin is a coin that is in the pristine condition that it was in when it left the mint. A mint state coin will show no signs of circulation whatsoever, but it can have normal mint processing defects such as bag marks and other dings.
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Valued Member
United States
275 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4212 Posts |
When I was active on the bay, (3700+ sales) I always added the caveat
on each offering that every piece was a box find. I sold many as
UNC, some gem BU. I found the biggest $$ re boxfinds, were AU or aUNC
or even UNC 82 & 83. I never had a complaint or return. These were the days
I'd average 60/roll of 82P, which has balooned since.
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Moderator
 United States
188440 Posts |
If a coin meets the technical specifications of being a mint state grade then it is a mint state grade. It has to be in a condition where if no one told you it was found in circulation you would not be able to tell it had been.
In my opinion the term uncirculated should be reserved for coins which never circulated, those which are issued by the mint to the collector. That is, uncirculated is not a grade, just as proof is not. Of course I state again that this is my opinion; it is how I refer to my own coins.
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
All major coin grades (F, VF, AU, etc.) are based on the amount of visible wear. The "point system" differentiates the coins within the major coin grade based on a number of factors in addition to wear. To answer one of your questions...yes, and coin can actually be spent, passed around, etc. and suffer no visible wear and thus still be considered "uncirculated". The word "uncirculated" when it comes to coin grades does not take into account whether or not the coin was ever actually "circulated" or not - it depends solely on what you can detect by looking at the coin. When a raw coin is sent to a grading company, they don't ask where the coin has been before they got it. They grade the coin by its appearance. There are exceptions where they KNOW the coin came straight from the mint, but that only means they generally only have to decide what numeric grade to assign to the mint state coin. EDIT: ps. We are not talking about grades assigned by ebay (or other ) vendors. I have seen coins with extremely visible wear described as UNC or even BU. Edited by nss-52
04/11/2017 12:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
I agree with jbuck. I could take a mint bag of coins, toss it into an industrial dryer, and they would still be "uncirculated".
It's a matter of semantics where a coin becomes "circulated":
1) When purchased from the Mint by a logistics company
2) When purchased from said company by a bank or retailer
3) When the roll is broken open and given as change for the first time
4) When used to buy something for the first time
I have thousands of cents and nickels in OBW rolls that have never touched human hands, but depending on where you draw the line, they are all "circulated".
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
I agree with the others: if a coin found in circulation shows no sign of being circulated, then it should be graded MS.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts |
Good question, lots of good input.
My confusion comes in when a MS graded coin has a mark from a counting wheel.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
It's a matter of semantics where a coin becomes "circulated":
1) When purchased from the Mint by a logistics company
2) When purchased from said company by a bank or retailer
3) When the roll is broken open and given as change for the first time
4) When used to buy something for the first time It becomes "circulated" when it starts showing the first traces of wear. The coin has to "speak" for itself. A third party looking at it and grading it knows absolutely about it's previous history and has to base the grade on what he sees on the coin itself. If it shows no trace of wear then it is uncirculated/mint state no matter what its past history is, or how many hands it may have passed through. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
I think this so called grading system is a bit nuts. And I love those dealers with coins marked as Unc, BU, ABU, HI Grade, MS something or other, Gem, Gem BU and on and on and on. I grew up with G, F, Unc. and Proof. Possibly a XF in there too. Now I see almost any combination possible with our 26 letters in the Alphabet. And there have been many suggestions to go to a 100 point system. Why not a thousand or ten thousand point system while we are at it?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
what is the difference between Uncirculated and Mint State and can a coin be found in circulation and still be considered Mint State? In numismatic parlance there is no differentiating "Uncirculated" and "Mint State". They are used interchangeably. And yes, a coin found in circulation can still be considered Mint State. Quote:
...is it possible to have a coin that was lightly circulated and not show any signs of it and be considered Mint State and therefore be graded as an MS coin? Again the answer is yes. Quote:
...if you find a coin in circulation that shows no signs of being circulation and you do not declare that you found it in circulation, is it MS? If there are no signs of wear then it is considered Mint State regardless of where it was found. |
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
1358 Posts |
I have been offered 40 year old silver Dutch coins with a lot of dents and scratches in them as 'uncirculated', the dents and scratches were described as 'bag marks' and such. One could easily see that there were no finger prints on the coins or traces of use, so the coins were most likely in uncirculated condition. But they definitely weren't in mint state anymore.
I've also found, in Singapore, a few five cent coin in change which just came out of a new roll which the vendor just opened. Those coins were given in change, thus they are technically circulated. But they lacked real fingerprints, didn't have a single dent or scratch, not even hairlines. Those coins were definitely in mint state.
I hope this helps.
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
"Circulated" means there are signs of wear on the coin.
"Uncirculated" means, when properly used, that there are no signs of wear on the coin.
Bag marks and scuffs are not considered wear on a coin showing no other signs of wear (but they will affect the numeric grade).
As a coin grade "uncirculated" does NOT MEAN the coin was never circulated (spent, received in change, put in a vending machine, or mixed with worn coins, etc.).
The coin grade does not require that a coin come straight from the mint just after being minted. Such coins are both coin-grade uncirculated (show no signs of wear) and literally uncirculated (have not been in circulation long enough to show signs of wear).
Edited by nss-52
04/12/2017 6:12 pm
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Moderator
United States
188440 Posts |
A friend shows you a coin and asks you to grade it. You can detect no wear on it so you call it mint state (or uncirculated). That is what it is. It does not matter if they later say they got it from the cashier at the QT.  |
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CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts |
Actually, wear is just one criteria in a continuum of grading from AU-50 to MS-70. Some time ago the market realized it just does not make sense for a coin to go from MS-65 to AU-58 with just the slightest touch of wear. Now we see wear on coins all the way up to MS-63. Two series where it is really obvious are Standing Liberty quarters, and Indian Quarter Eagles. I see wear on lots of MS-63 coins. No wear and it is usually at least MS-64. |
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Replies: 14 / Views: 4,583 |
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Posted 04/11/2017 12:03 pm
