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Should/Would The US Mint Institute An Alloy Recovery Program?

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TheForce's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  1:10 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Should/Would The US Mint Institute an Alloy Recovery Program as Canada has done? It is my understanding this keeps the coinage in circulation current and fresh.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Canada alloy recovery program made sense because they were recovering basically the pre 1981 five cents and up that were made from pure nickel. The metal was already worth more than the face value of the coins and there was no refining needed in recovering the metal. Also much of that was done several years ago when the price of nickel was much higher (It got up to around $20 a pound. $5 face value in nickels contains nearly $20 in metal.)

Today's lower metal prices would make an alloy recovery for the US maybe a break even proposition for the copper one cent pieces probably a small loss on the five cent. Out of the question for the higher denominations. If metal prices were to go back up closer to their historic highs it would make sense for the copper cents and nickels.

They did have an "alloy recovery" program back in the late 60's that recovered a lot of the silver coins from circulation. That ended around 1970 or 71 when the amount of coins recovered dropped to the point where it was no longer economically feasible to continue. Shortly after that the melting ban on silver coins was rescinded.
Edited by Conder101
06/20/2017 1:34 pm
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was going to say maybe, but Conder101's reply has me now thinking no.
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TheForce's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  3:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really wish all those corroded cents would be pulled from circulation instead of being wrapped and rewrapped. Just food for thought, why not throw those useless dollar coins the government has hoarded in government vaults? Is there really any alloy that is not subject to corrosion? Tired of those nasty cents covered on green and other funky colors.
Edited by TheForce
06/20/2017 3:12 pm
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Recovering the worthless cents that are produced in such massive quantities would be double negative on the accounting end.

They already cost more than a cent to make. They would cost more than a cent to recover. They are just bad, not matter how you figure it. Including how ugly they become with the least amount of circulation.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just food for thought, why not throw those useless dollar coins the government has hoarded in government vaults? Is there really any alloy that is not subject to corrosion?
Melting these would not compensate for the seigniorage that is already on the books. That is, it would cost a lot to melt them.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct! How do I get into a business like this?
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TheForce's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So what does our government plan to do with the billions of dollar coins just sitting there in vaults? Maybe they could be shipped to US territories?
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n9jig's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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So what does our government plan to do with the billions of dollar coins just sitting there in vaults? Maybe they could be shipped to US territories?


If they just got rid of the dollar bill these coins would be in circulation rather quickly.
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TheForce's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2017  11:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
True, but it doesn't seem likely that will happen anytime soon. It would seem kinda weird seeing brand new 2007 prez dollars being released into circulation seeing light of day in let's say 2030.
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cladking's Avatar
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 Posted 06/21/2017  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes. Simple.

Recycle the zinc and copper cents and the nickel.

Issue a new nickel of the same size in aluminum. In about five years when there're are no longer enough pennies and nickels flowing back to the FED then recover the new aluminum nickel and issue a small aluminum nickel.

This would produce a lot of extra money for the government.

If they try to sell favor to special interests and use zinc for the new nickel there will be fatalities because zinc kills babies under about 15 lbs. A larger zinc coin will kill toddlers who get around and ingest a lot more coins.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 06/21/2017  10:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I really wish all those corroded cents would be pulled from circulation instead of being wrapped and rewrapped.

Stop making one cent pieces and they all disappear from circulation on their own fairly quickly.
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CollegeBarbers's Avatar
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 Posted 06/21/2017  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CollegeBarbers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Stop making one cent pieces and they all disappear from circulation on their own fairly quickly.

I don't think an alloy recovery program would be cost effective, so the best option in terms of fiscal responsibility would be to just stop minting the cent and nickel. Even if alloy recovery was cost effective, I don't think it would be worthwhile for the cent and nickel because nobody will counterfeit them due to the cost. But say we only had dollar coins instead of dollar bills, then alloy recovery could be a good idea for them to hinder counterfeiting efforts.
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 Posted 06/21/2017  2:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Melting these would not compensate for the seigniorage that is already on the books. That is, it would cost a lot to melt them.


I love this logic. The government minted a bunch of money and now if they destroy it, they lose money. But the money didn't exist before they made it so what are they losing exactly? This reminds me of the discussion I once heard about how much they'd lose if the Post Office burned down with all those rolls of stamps in them. Somehow I doubt they do accounting the same way the mint does.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 06/21/2017  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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True, but it doesn't seem likely that will happen anytime soon. It would seem kinda weird seeing brand new 2007 prez dollars being released into circulation seeing light of day in let's say 2030.
I think it will be fun. I also think it will happen in the next couple of years.


Quote:
Stop making one cent pieces and they all disappear from circulation on their own fairly quickly.
Agreed.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 06/21/2017  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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I love this logic. The government minted a bunch of money and now if they destroy it, they lose money. But the money didn't exist before they made it so what are they losing exactly?
For the sake of those who do not know, the mint sells the coins to the Federal Reserve at face value. The seigniorage is the profit made on that sale. The Fed shows the coins on their books as an asset, at face value. If they want to melt them, they will have to show that full value as a loss, minus what the recycler might pay and you know that is not going to be face value.
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