Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsJoin Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors 300,000 items to help build your collection! Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Small Silver Coin Possibly Viking

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 3,184Next Topic  
New Member

United Kingdom
4 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  1:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Baldy101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hi all.
I have found a small silver coin and need a little help identifying it.
I have sort of done a little investigation but unsure as can't see anything with same markings.
I do hope you can help.

Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking
Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Moderator
Learn More...
echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community

Not my area of collecting, but we have others here that will be able to help.
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34419 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  8:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@baldy, first welcome to CCF. Second, that is an interesting coin that you have there. I agree that it looks to be Viking or perhaps early English. I'm looking in my copy of Spinks to find a good match and will let you know if I find anything.

Added: ok I'm giving up for the night. I didn't see anything in Spinks nor at wildwinds.com that matched up with your coin: a left facing portrait that protrudes into the inscription on the obv and a small/medium cross pattee on the rev. My best deciphering of the inscriptions is SIHTBC REX DIFLNI on the obv and +HnOLFMOWIRHALH on the rev. Lots to decipher as I can only find one king whose name starts with the letter S (Svein). Despite the degenerate legend, this really feels like an English silver penny from the late 900s AD.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
08/07/2017 10:38 pm
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sihtric, aka Sigtrygg, known as "Silkbeard." Appears to be a rather crude, later imitative issue, based on the poor detailing of the head.
You can Google him for more information, and learn about the relationship between Ireland, Denmark, Norway, and the early English Kingdoms in the process.

Posthumous, almost certainly Irish (Hiberno-Norse), early 11th c. A.D. Struck in imitation of the "small cross" pennies of Aethelred II.

Moneyer on the reverse seems to be Hrolf of Wirral; this is problematic as no such moneyer is listed in Parsons. (HROLF MO WIRHALH)
This means that it is more than likely one of the later imitative issues, the Sihtric obverse muled with an Aethelred reverse.

The inscription is in the Old English (=Ænglisc) lettering.

Transliterated into Roman letters, SIHTRIC RE DYBLNI (=Dublin, the Y represents the Yogh rune) - perhaps blundered from an original DYBLIN.

I highly recommend professional authentication. If real, it's scarce, despite recent hoard finds, and worth a pretty penny - no pun intended.

The original issues from the early 1000s AD with good weight and design, usually the "long cross" type, bring four-figure money, on the rare occasion they are sold.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
08/07/2017 11:54 pm
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  02:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Baldy101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow
Thank you the pictures I was looking at of the coin was directing me towards silkbeard but with the small cross on the reverse side was really confusing me,all the pictures are detailing the long cross.
I agree that it needs to be sent to an expert for detailed investigation.
Many many thanks for the help.
Pete.
Pillar of the Community
DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  03:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Viking coins are rare and expensive, and the first photo really looks like a Viking design. The coin however reminds me of a coin that I struck myself at the Yorvic Viking Centre as a child. Maybe it is an aluminium mix? In any case as part of the tourist attraction they let you strike your own coin, my one has a different side B but as a child the memory of being given a big hammer to hit the dies with was a memorable one.

So that's my guess, but you will need to hear from someone who knows for sure.
Pillar of the Community
DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Photo's of what I am talking about... you can see the similarity of design to the King Aethelstan side.


Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking

Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking
Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking
Small-Silver-Coin-Possibly-Viking

Looking in Spink I do see lots of Northumbria and Viking coiniage looks similar, the strange thing on yours is on the other side your portrait is not separated from the motto by any sort of line... most of the coins seem to feature this whereas yours does not... A bit of a head scratcher.

Edited by DavidUK
08/08/2017 07:35 am
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  3:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Baldy101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you David.
Yes I can see the similarity between them.
Bedrock of the Community
paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first issues with the Sihtric obverse (while he was alive and out plundering the rest of Ireland) were of good enough quality, and of sufficient weight, to pass as currency; the engraving was generally done with a degree of skill and knowledge, with fully readable legends and some fine details. These facts, combined with the fairly-accurate imitations of the Aethelred II silver pennies, indicate that the Dublin engravers and moneyers must have been able to at least partially read Old English, or were perhaps English themselves.

(Remember, this is a time when languages spoken by the people involved included Danish, Wessex/Mercian flavors of Old English, Old Norse & Irish Gaelic; in Dublin, by the time these coins were struck, Old Irish had already taken hold and displaced the Scandinavian languages.)

The coins of the earlier issues have a degree of "heft" to them and feel like, well, actual silver pennies; think early-mid 2nd c. Roman AR denarii.

A Dublin die-sinker's imitation of an AEII English reverse with a Wirral mint makes sense as well, since it was "just" across the Irish Sea and pennies minted there would have likely been back and forth in trade or with military campaigns on both sides; the Wirral had been heavily contested by the Danes, Norsemen, and Norse Gaels (Hiberno-Norse) from the 800s off and on.

As the coinage series progressed, and the original moneyers had since gone, the posthumous coinage was subject to frequent debasement, not as much by tampering with the alloy, but by reducing the planchet thickness. The die-sinkers went from being able to at least partially comprehend the legends, to being able to draw the characters but not read them, to being unable to comprehend them at all.

By the late 11th & early 12th c. the "mints" in Dublin were turning out barely-recognizable and nearly paper-thin slivers of metal with nonsense legends or just random lines, devices that had gone from somewhat passable imitations to looking like a child's stick-figure drawings, and bizarre symbols and characters added to both sides of the coin that didn't look like anything at all and didn't seem to serve any purpose.

If you think the coin is from circumstances likely to merit a consideration as authentic (i.e. metal-detector find, hoard recovery, past owner or seller provenance) -- know that for every "real" example, there must be a hundred or a thousand fakes, museum copies, tributes, replicas, and forgeries, of quality varying from laughably bad to shockingly good. On the other hand, sometimes the "real" coins were so poorly engraved and struck that it's hard NOT to assume that they're ridiculous counterfeits. Matching your design to known designs to the plates in Parsons' book or on the DFD website or in museum and auction catalogues is a good start, as is seeing what the weight is, and the diameter and thickness of the flan. Those steps alone will help you eliminate a large number of fakes right off the bat. If you can find something reasonably similar in weight, diameter and design, it might be worth professional authentication. Otherwise, it's at least a neat conversation piece ;)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34419 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2017  06:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great info @paralyse and @daviduk! I'm glad someone here made some progress on this silver penny.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
New Member
United Kingdom
4 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2017  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Baldy101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I certainly quite agree with @Spence
It's had my head done in!
There is a significant chance that it's a fake.
I have contacted a museum to ask if they would have a look at it.
I'm not holding out much hope but just supposing it would be something rather special.
When I get more information I will certainly post on here.

Many thanks to you all.

Pete.
  Previous TopicReplies: 10 / Views: 3,184Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.37 seconds to rattle this change. Forums