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95.5% Of 12 Ceasars Set In Silver- Post Or No Post?

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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 08/07/2017  4:33 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Posts by Finn and orfew have prodded me for a few months now, and the latest by Steve (Finn) has me chomping at the bit (in a good way).

I recently "almost completed" a 12 caesars set in silver. One of the coins is a drachm, not a denarius, but it is close in appearance. I count it as a half. That gives me 11 1/2 out of 12, which is just over 95.5% complete. This is as close to a full set as I have been able to assemble in 35 years.

My question is should I show it now or wait for a more "pure" version of the last one? It's a nice looking set as is.

So, you tell me,
care to see another almost-12 caesars set on the list?
Or should I quietly hold off?
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Finn235's Avatar
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 Posted 08/07/2017  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Finn235 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I say post 'em!

Out of curiosity who are you "halfway" missing?
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 08/07/2017  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anything remotely resembling a 12 Caesars set is cool!

I currently only have two different ones - one in imperial (Claudius) and one in provincial (Caligula). Both are AE issues; I probably couldn't afford a silver.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 08/07/2017  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
show it now or wait for a more "pure" version of the last one?


Yes!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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nfine's Avatar
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 Posted 08/07/2017  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By all means, show the set.
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  7:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would love to see your set, please show them.
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orfew's Avatar
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1269 Posts
 Posted 08/07/2017  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add orfew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, please show your set. There is no "correct" way to complete the set. In my opinion if you like provincials, use them. If you want a mix of silver and bronze then go for it.
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2017  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Creative deviations from "sets" of any kind is encouraged as some of the best groups I've seen started out within boundaries and expanded to something entirely different and very enjoyable.
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lrbguy's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2017  10:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I certainly have no disagreement with the sense that one may complete a 12 Caesars set any way one likes. However, as I said before, I had set out to complete a set in silver, by which I had intended to mean a set of denarii. However, I was not aware the mint at Ceasarea, Cappadocia is listed in BMCRE as one of the regular Imperial mints for this period, and was producing in silver, albeit drachmae. Since these are listed alongside the output of other mints at the time, it would seem that one can construct a set in silver which co-mingles denarii and drachmae. So my 12 Caesars set is 100% complete for Imperial silver, and 95.5% complete as a set of denarii. Therefore, it is ready to be shown to anyone interested in seeing it. As orfew once said, these things are always a work in progress, so who knows how this will change. Moreover, I have only selected one example of each emperor to show this time around, but others may get the spotlight down the road. Anyway, enough. Let's get to it.

The historical stories of the 12 Caesars have been told and retold in this forum and elsewhere. Those stories are what attract us to their coins in the first place. The convention of collecting the first 12 Caesars as a group is derived from the classic history by Suetonius which he limited to a history of the first 12 Caesars. In antiquity the number 12 had numerological significance as a number of completeness in human matters, and this sense carried over into all aspects of life in the ancient world, even among Christians and Jews as well as pagans. So a history of the first twelve emperors marked a milestone. Even today these 12 figures are mostly well known as historical personages, with certain exceptions, especially in this forum, so I will not endeavor to capsulize their life stories here. Instead I wish to take a more direct look at the particular coins I have selected to represent them.

I will introduce the emperors and their coins in groups of three.

Julius Caesar (44 BC)
(Crawford 480/19; RSC 8; BMC(republican) 4187

95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?

This is a coin of the moneyer C. Cossutius Maridianus issued very shortly after the death of Caesar in early 44BC. The obverse bears a portrait of Julius Caesar laureate and veiled. It is one of the first types to bear the title PARENS PATRIAE, ascending on the left. His name CAESAR ascends on the right. In the fields left and right respectively are an apex, a pointed priestly cap the emperor was entitled to wear as one of the flamines, and a lituus, inspired by the staff shepherds used to redirect or rescue sheep, but used as a wand to mark out sacred space in the sky above the worshiping conclave.

The reverse has the name of the moneyer arranged in a crossword pattern, C.COSSVTIVS + MERID IANVS, with the letters A A A FF at angels in the 4 corners as if radiating from the center. These letters stood for the words aere argento auro (the three metals bronze, silver, and gold) flando feriundo (referring to the making of coins). Crawford puts this coin in the class of those that were propaganda for the treviri monetales. The office of "moneyer" was an old honorarium in the Republic, and as a pathway to privilege had been fixed at three as early as 289 BC. That number had been increased to four by Julius Caesar in 44 BC as part of an effort to increase the number of minor magistrates in the imperial administration (promoting upward mobility and gratitude to the emperor). But after his death that number was not long in returning to the historical three.


Augustus Caesar/ Octavian (8-6 BC)
(BMCRE 502)
Minted at Lugdunum (Lyon)


95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?

The obverse inscriptions read AVGVSTVS downward on left, and DIVI F upward on right. The use of the word DIVI on later coins tended to be a posthumous reference to the deceased (and deified) imperial person, however, here it was intended as a familial reference to a deceased parent.


Rev.: C.CAES (off flan) above; AVGVS.F below in exergue.

The reverse features an image of G/Caius Caesar, an adopted grandson of Augustus (not Caligula), on horseback, brandishing sword and shield, riding past a pair of vexilla (signal standards) on either side of an aquila (eagle standard). Mattingly observes that this reverse type is particularly well suited to Gaul.



Tiberius Caesar (16-21 AD)
(BMCRE 36)
Minted at Lugdunum


95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?

The so-called "tribute penny" was simply the most common style of denarius to be produced during the reign of Emperor Tiberius. Two other denarii were in production during the first year of his reign, but the seated "Livia as Pax" reverse alone continued in production at Lugdunum (Lyon) throughout his reign. Production at Rome was limited to bronze entirely. Beyond Lugdunum the mint at Caesarea Cappadocia alone also produced in silver, but those coins were drachmae, not denarii.

TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS
Bare laureate portrait bust facing right.

PONTIF MAXIM
Seated female figure (representing Livia as Pax) facing right, holding a scepter vertically in her right hand, and an olive branch ahead in her left.
Legs of chair plain; double line below.


There are three varieties to this reverse in the BMC catalog, based on design details involving: the ornamentation of the chair, the nature of the long object being held, and the number of lines below the chair to depict the flooring. Others add a fourth detail as the appearance or not of a footstool. So the coins have been divided into four to six groups based on their common design details (depending upon the catalog system in use). The basic three styles group chronologically as Group 1: 16-21 AD; Group 2: 21-25 AD; Group 3: 26-27 AD.

This example features the lady seated in a plain, unadorned chair, holding a branch in her left hand and a vertical staff or scepter in her right. Her feet rest on the floor, and there are two parallel lines marking space below the chair. These are the salient characteristics of Group 1, which is undated on the coins but the earliest issue type.


Edited by lrbguy
08/09/2017 6:43 pm
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 08/08/2017  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Outstanding trio. Looking forward to seeing the other three sets. Congrats on the accomplishment!
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echizento's Avatar
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23731 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Super coins.
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orfew's Avatar
Canada
1269 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2017  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add orfew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonderful choices! I love the portraits on all 3. I am also looking forward to seeing the rest.
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tenbobbit's Avatar
United Kingdom
701 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2017  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tenbobbit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice trio
The Julius Caesar I have not seen before.
Looking forward to the others.
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nfine's Avatar
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3471 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2017  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nfine to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not my area of collecting, but I find them to be absolutely stunning. Thank you so much for sharing them.
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lrbguy's Avatar
United States
949 Posts
 Posted 08/09/2017  6:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add lrbguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm glad you're enjoying them, and I hope you will not be disappointed in the next group. Thank you for the kind remarks.


Caius Julius Caesar Germanicus (Caligula) (37-38)
(BMCRE 103; RSC 12; RIC 8)
Drachm of Ceasarea, Cappadocia

95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?

C CAESAR AVG GERMANICVS
Bare head of Caligula facing right

(obv and rev both read: right up, left down, outwardly)


IMPERATOR P[ON]T.MAX AVG TR [PO]T
simpulum and lituus

Of this reverse type at Caesarea, Mattingly gives the note, "The drachm of Caligula, with the priestly type, simpulum and lituus, indicating his rank as Pontifex Maximus, was probably struck in his first year, A.D. 37-8." To this he adds the additional note "TR POT is in favor of this; but it is occasionally used as a title only, not as a date."
As to the cultic objects depicted, a simpulum is essentially a ladle, associated with sacrificial libations. The lituus, a short heavily curved wand, was discussed above under the coin of Julius Caesar.



Tiberius Claudius Nero Germanicus (41-42)
(BMCRE 13; RSC 6; RIC 2)
Minted at Rome

95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?


TI CLAVD CAESAR. AVG GERM PM TR P
(reading up from left to right)
laureate head of Claudius facing right

This is one of two obverse inscriptions for Claudius dated to the beggining of his reign, 41-42 A.D. Some of his later denarii show a mild flatness to the top of his head that this one does not.

CONSTANTIAE AVGVSTI
Constantia seated left on curule chair

In view of the death of Antonia, the mother of Claudius, under Caligula, the figure of Constantia is noteworthy. Mattingly observes in BMCRE I, clv, "The type 'Constantiae Avgvsti' represents Antonia, in the character of 'the Firmness of the Emperor', 'Imperial Constancy'...." "The type suggests that Claudius derived the 'Constantia',..., from his mother, a woman of marked strength and determination of character."



Nero Claudius Caesar (64-68)
(BMCRE 54; RSC 43; RIC 41)
Minted at Rome

95.5%-Of-12-Ceasars-Set-In-Silver--Post-Or-No-Post?

NERO CAESAR AVGVSTVS
Laureate head right, with beard


AVGVSTVS AVGVSTA
Nero radiate, togate, stg. l holding patera in r hand, long scepter in left.
Empress veiled and draped, on his right, standing left, holding patera in r hand and cornucopia in l.

The appearance of a radiate crown on the figure of the Emperor owes most likely to an association with the sun as put forward by Dio "who tells us that rays, from no visible source, played on him as a baby." (Mattingly).

There is some disagreement among the catalogers on the identification of the empress on this coin. Seaby (RSC) associates this figure with Messalina. Mattingly (BMCRE) acknowledges the plausibility that the scene may resemble the honors which had been bestowed on Nero and Messalina on a visit to Greece in 66, but regards the coins as dating too early for that association. He prefers to identify the AVGVSTA with the Imperial consort Poppea who died just before the marriage to Messalina in 65. He would place this coin at the beginning of the range for the later undated coins.
Edited by lrbguy
08/09/2017 9:31 pm
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 08/09/2017  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Museum-quality coins so far!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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