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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,191 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
I got this in an email today. Seems as if Mr. Hall has once again struck a cord with some collectors. It is the last comment that struck me. HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL...and OWNERSHIP ADDS A POINT...or two!
So that's what happened. My advice...have fun and enjoy your coins. Leave the crack out GAMBLING to the pros.While I do not always agree with Mr. Hall, in this case, I must say that he hit the nail on the head. Here is his comments as posted on the PCGS forum: Hi Everybody,
A while back several board members complained that PCGS had "tightened up" the grading standards. Since I'm in the grading room quite a bit, know how things work in the room, and see a lot of how shall we say it "hopeful" Presidential Reviews...I was skeptical. But as a service to you all (and to make sure personally that things were as they should be)...I offered to do free Presidential Reviews and then let you know the results.
Interestingly, only a few of you took me up on the offer. But I did do about 10 reviews...about 100 coins total. What I saw was about what I expected...hope springs eternal, or as I sometimes say, "Ownership adds a point." Here are a few examples...
1923 Mercury dime...Submitter expected 64, our grade was AU58 and the coin had clear and obvious wear.
1937 Mercury dime...Submitter expected 67FB or 68FB but the coin had an obvious scratch, not minor mark but scratch, on the face.
"How come this Jeffereson nickel isn't at least 68CAM?" Because of the obvious carbon spots on the forehead...they weren't humongous, but you didn't need a glass to see them.
There was one order of Lincoln cents in which I didn't think a single coin had even a shot at a higher grade.
I'm sure the skeptics will feel this is the party line but I can only report what I see and the bottom line is...
1. PCGS does not loosen or tighten its grading standards. We don't have discussions about moving the line. We just try to grade the coins as accurately and consistently as possible. Is it possible to send a coin in multiple times and get different grades. Sure...it's the nature of the subjective process. But the fact is we just try to grade them as we see them.
2. Very few people have the grading skills that match the PCGS graders. You are probably missing something on the coin if you think it's undergraded. You might be right, but you're probably not. Even the pros who play the crack-out game have their share of misses. They may tell you about the hits, but they tell me (and complain) about the misses. I see it every day with Presidential Reviews in the grading room and every time I'm at a show doing "Meet The Expert." HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL...and OWNERSHIP ADDS A POINT...or two!
So that's what happened. My advice...have fun and enjoy your coins. Leave the crack out GAMBLING to the pros.
Thanks,
DavidFull link: http:// (046) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed &threadid=458617 |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Not being familiar with slabs and never having seen one I can only ask some questions in general
Are grading companies certified ISO 9001 ?
And when their graders are retired what are then the qualifications to become an apprentice grader and what are the procedures and required trainings and required accomplishments to make independant grader status ?
And once an independant grader how do you keep the graders standardised so that they grade the same whomever is doing the grading
What is the yearly continuous training for people that are allready independant graders ?
And are there spotchecks on the output by one single person to assure quality of grading is uniform ?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2724 Posts |
There are "NO" standards for being a grader. The ANA suggested a uniform standard, however, the grading companies fought this idea, and the ANA caved into their wishes. This is why we have so many "worthless" grading companies. As far as what it takes, each firm is slightly different. I have personally met some graders from each of the top four firms and some from the lesser firms. Grading in and of itself has "no" real standard. Each firm makes their own guidelines, and for the most part try to stick to those guidelines. The trick to grading is to know which service grades on which standard. NGC and PCGS are very simular, having been founded by the same people. Unfortunately, until someone stands up and makes a standard grading system, there can be no standard for the graders. Edited by national dealer
12/17/2005 09:47 am
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Despite the written standards, there is still too much subjectivity regarding grading standards. "Eye appeal" is a very nebulous criteria as is the measurement of severity of rim dings. The notion of computer (machine) grading would standardize all the standards, but until someone comes up with such a program which is foolproof and universal acceptance, we'll always have variation in grading from one company, grader, or person to another. I don't expect to see such standardization in my lifetime.
Fred
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Oh any company wanting to make "easy" money will fight standards I am a lead auditor ISO 9001 and a lead auditor ISO 14001 ( that is quality systems certification and environmental systems certification to you ) I saw my previous firm fight the authorities over using a checklist for quality audits and win the argument because we are thoroughly trained and a checklist would degrade us to crossers and tickers  But they lost the argument on environment because that is so complex even a trained person can use some reminder Internal evaluation showed the expected bell shape distribution on the left one or two auditors that were too easy on the right one or two that were way too difficult  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Morgan Fred
Despite the written standards, there is still too much subjectivity regarding grading standards. "Eye appeal" is a very nebulous criteria as is the measurement of severity of rim dings. The notion of computer (machine) grading would standardize all the standards, but until someone comes up with such a program which is foolproof and universal acceptance, we'll always have variation in grading from one company, grader, or person to another. I don't expect to see such standardization in my lifetime.
Fred
Fred The only thing I would expect from a grading company is to assure me that the coin is real and not a copy or a fake After all coins are like gents and woman Beauty is in the eye of the beholder  |
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
Well, this post didn't come out as I had planned. My mistake!
Edited by crystalk64
12/17/2005 10:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by ageka
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
While that is true, the big dollars come in the form of numbers on the plastic. I would love to see a technical grading system, then allow the buyer to adjust value for eye appeal. However, I never expect to see such a breakthrough. TOO MUCH MONEY involved for anything to happen. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
Again I am getting the "time out error message" and my post does not show as posted.
THIS IS FRUSTRATING THE *&^% OUT OF ME SUSAN!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
The David sayth thusly:
"HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL...and OWNERSHIP ADDS A POINT...or two!"
Always did and it always will. But as dis-interested third parties TPGs were suppose to put an end to that. Have they failed?
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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts |
I read so many articles where the author (writer) comes across as he/she is talking down to me or they are treating us like kindergarten kids who have to be lead, poked and prodded into doing things right which in their humble opinion is their way. I resent that just as much as I resent most advertising gimmicks currently used here in the U.S. today. A national bullion company called the other day and started by telling me the professionals were NOW predicting $1,500 gold? First of all WHO are all these professionals and if that was fact why in the world would they want to sell me gold now that it is still so low? You think they would keep quiet and buy it all up if they are so darned sure of things and sell it off themselves when it reaches $1500. Way to many folks out there think we are all stupid with money to burn?
Edited by crystalk64
12/17/2005 11:01 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by crystalk64
First of all WHO are all these professionals
The brokers who get a commission from selling the gold are professionals.  I have a big problem with anyone who is going to tell me all their "amazing" secrets for becoming a millionaire in only 30 days. Really, if I knew the secret why would want tell anyone about it? Edited by longnine009
12/18/2005 08:10 am
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Terry Those professionals saying gold goes to 1500 $ may be right But what they are not saying is that if today you get a nice suite to wear for 500 $ that same suite probably will cost you 1 500 $ the moment gold hits that price In other words you just have exactly what you had an ounce of gold or a nice new suite Now if you had stuck to that 500$ without buying coins for them you may end up having money for pants only |
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,191 |
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Posted 12/17/2005 09:47 am
