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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,842 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
I was pondering this question recently. Basically, we know why not pure silver - too soft, and the higher the silver content it would seem like a better option. So why not 925? While the answer may be as simple as, why not? I am inclined to think that there was some thought process that went into it. I googled, and did not find an answer.
I have a theory that they did so to discourage melting. The more coins get melted, the more you have to mint. That costs money. Sterling silver was the standard for flatware, dishes, possibly jewelry, and more. It would be all too easy to melt the coins for silver. Making it 90% would mean that any melter would have to add more silver to the mixture to reach 925. At that point it may no longer be worthwhile to do so over buying ready made sterling. Do you have a theory, or an article that answers this question?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
The Spanish 8 reales (dollar) was the currency of the land, and it was struck in .900 fine. The dollar weight was adopted by the US based on the average of 1,000 (IIRC) circulated dollars in the region. To increase to .925 would have been a nightmare in figuring out conversion rates. The US government didn't feel it had produced enough coinage to be entirely self-sufficient until the middle of the 19th century.
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
So the question becomes why did the Spanish use .900 silver. I think that discouraging melting is a good reason.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
One of those things I read 100 years ago, but I do believe the Spanish loved the larger 8 resale size specifically to prevent melting and refining.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
I think you guys might be right, however why would Britain and the entire Commonwealth (including Canada to the North) all use Sterling Silver (Canada up till 1919)?
You would imagine that if melting was an issue for sure Britain would see that as well.
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
That is a good point. I am speculating, but perhaps they had more access to raw silver and/or minting capacity to overcome losses from melting. Raw silver access may also allow those needing non-coin silver to meet their own production demands. It might make sense that all raw silver was refined to .925 to meet demand from all sources. Again, I am speculating here.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I think the hypothesis that it based off the 8 reales is the most plausible. According to this article written by R.W. Julian, there was a plan in 1783 to set the fineness close to the sterling standard but it fell through because it did not consider the widespread use of Spanish colonial coinage. There were people like Thomas Jefferson who felt that our dollar had to correspond to the Spanish 8 reales. After much tinkering, the fineness was set in 1792 at 0.8924 which is not that far off the 0.896 fineness of contemporary 8 reales. According to the article, it was the U.S mint assayer Albion Coxe who suggested that they secretly mint coins to 0.900 fineness in order to make the calculations and refining easier. My guess is that may be why the standard was officially changed to 90% in the 1830's. According to wikipedia, the fineness was originally set at 0.9305 in 1497 but debased to 0.9166 in 1728, secretly to 0.903 in 1772, and again secretly to 0.896 in 1786. I am not totally sure the reasons were the same for the 1728 and 1786 debasements but in this article written by Daniel Sedwick, the reason in 1772 was "to alleviate Spain's mounting financial chaos." I don't know if this is fact but it seems to me that when countries get into financial problems, they usually try to create more money. When you are on a bimetallic standard, the way you "print money" is by reducing the weight and fineness of coinage. Reducing the fineness would probably be preferable to reducing the weight since it is harder to detect.
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
That makes sense. Thank you for sharing that, DE. 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
In the documents I've been transcribing for RWB there are documents discussing the change of fineness from .8924 to .900 and one of the major points that was stressed was ease of calculations and reduced chances of error in the calculations.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
In its early years the US was a net importer of silver. Coin silver (90%) was widely and economically available on world markets. Sterling silver (92.5%) was pretty much a British thing, the standard having been decreed by one of the Henry's I believe. The US did not have an assayer at the time. Liberty on the coins would have somehow been devalued if the source of the silver was The Royal Mint.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning... -from PCGS website
Edited by DBM 09/15/2017 01:08 am
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Moderator
 United States
188213 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Why would "coin silver have been widely available in the early years of the mint? No country used 900 fine silver for their coins. At one point some of the Spanish colonials were 902 fine. And the Mint had an assayer beginning in 1793 when the fineness was supposed to be .8924 (I say supposed to be but for the first couple years they actually made them 900 fine untill they were forced to revert to the legal fineness.) Cox argued that the .8924 fineness would cause the coins to turn dark (it wouldn't) and even he stated that 900 fine was easier to use and made calculations easier. The same argument used in 1837 when the legal fineness was actually changed.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Even with the Philly mint working around the clock and technological advances in minting, there were not nearly enough coins to supply the nation, especially as the frontier steadily grew westward. A fineness of near .900 was enough to be competitive with European silver crowns (e.g. Thalers & 8 Reales) but allowed for Mint seigniorage and made the calculation of coin weights and proportions mathematically easier. The American dollar contained less silver than a full-weight Spanish 8 Reales, by 1-1.5 grams.
Unfortunately for the Government, "good" silver that entered circulation was mostly hoarded by banks and merchants; the result was that most of the circulating foreign silver was underweight - debased, heavily worn, clipped, filed, or otherwise devalued. This made it difficult to establish the Federal coinage as the de facto money supply since, by Jefferson's 1806 law, the foreign specie retained nominal parity with its Federal counterparts, despite the "actual" silver value of the foreign specie being less than its face value in most cases. This problem would not be meaningfully addressed for another 50+ years.
I agree that the most likely reason for (approximately) .900 silver was due to the ease of calculation and composition. I would also add that the use of .925 silver would have been disastrous; any such coins would have rapidly fled the country and been replaced by debased foreign silver, and the operation of the Mint would not have been sustainable. The .925 British coinage was already nearly nonexistent in circulation by the start of the 19th c. and had been for 30+ years before that; it tended to flow back to Britain and stay there.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse 09/17/2017 11:01 pm
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Moderator
 United States
34402 Posts |
Quote: Very interesting. I agree--never really thought about this, but it is interesting to ponder.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
744 Posts |
While I agree with the above reasons, coins back them were made to circulate and I believe that this was the main reason... 90% holds up better to wear and tear...
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
I suspect that it's due to cost - it's cheaper to have less silver. At the same time, I can imagine that .900 silver is much easier to work out, i.e. 9 parts silver and 1 part copper as opposed to 9 and quarter part silver and 7 and three quarter silver.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,842 |