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Jagged Edges On Coin Features?

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DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  05:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
What would be the reason for these?

Jagged-Edges-On-Coin-Features?

Close-up

Jagged-Edges-On-Coin-Features?

First coin is listed at Vcoins. Second is from an Armenian seller on ebay (400643691095). Both coins described as being from the 14th century AD.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe it's part of the legend.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2017  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the explanation is not sinister and is simply attributable to some technique the Ilkhan (and other?) die engravers used? Are these details seen on other Ilkhan coins? I never looked for them and so I don't know.

Having said that, I have read numerous times that parallel ridges are evidence of modern dies that were engraved with power tools. There's an article at Forum by Ilya Prokopov about this, and in it he mentions that "eliminating tracks on slopes" - meaning the sides of engraved letters and other motifs - is harder for forgers to do (conceal) than the high points.

Not sure that's what is going on here, however. Hopefully the coins are kosher. But, for comparison, here are pics of modern fakes struck from dies engraved with power tools.

Jagged-Edges-On-Coin-Features?
Edited by Kamnaskires
09/29/2017 08:57 am
Pillar of the Community
DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2017  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is exactly what I had in mind.


As for the second coin:

it's been uploaded to Zeno in 2013 (with a note that the image is from ebay). Its Zeno number is #123254.
There are five other coins in the same category: #176940 (same lines visible), #177028 (even more visible, including vertical parts of the inscriptions), #136718 (awful condition but traces visible here and there), and #165479 (it seems there are no such lines on this one*).
* but of course this photo has to be the tiniest of all, so it's hard to be sure.

As for the first coin:

the closest match may be #14726 (apparently it's the same type but different die and style of writing). The lines aren't there.
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2017  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am very much inclined to agree with the opinion of Bob L.
That is, evidence of a particular die engraving technique.

If it was a sign of metal flow it would be radial from the center. In the case pictured, those tiny lines are random in their direction, and so provides my confidence in his opinion.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 09/30/2017  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison, here are a couple more pics posted by Ilya Prokopov, Forum's "Staff Authentication Consultant," citing these as evidence of machine engraving.

Jagged-Edges-On-Coin-Features?
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DL20K's Avatar
Poland
3201 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2017  05:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DL20K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not expecting much of a response due to the nature of the subject, I sent an e-mail to Steve Album (or rather, his staff).

Their response was:
"These are simply engraving marks left on the die by the diecutter tools.
You were commonly see them on the larger silver coins of the post Mongol era and of the Mughal empire of India."

I also asked two collectors of such coins, both replied, and one of them provided an answer which matched the one above, while the other did not contradict it either.



Perhaps, under magnification, these lines look different, than those on the modern fakes - we don't have high quality images after all.
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