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 Replies: 22 / Views: 4,111 |
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Your coin appears to be counterfeit. The feathers on the neck of the eagle on a type 1 Trade dollar do not reach/touch the wing. On your coin the neck feathers extend all the way to the wing. Could you provide a close up photo of the eagle neck feathers? On a type 2 reverse Trade dollar the feathers do touch the wing. Below is a genuine reverse of a 1874 S in a PCGS holder that clearly shows the neck feathers short or the wing.  |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Welcome to Coin Community, bkstyl. I'm not expert on this series, but I see nothing grossly wrong with it to indicate it isn't authentic. Nice strong AU Trade dollar, AU55 probably, and in a non-Details slab I would expect to pay at least $400 for it. Your images are nice and sharp, but it's problematic to pronounce opinion on a coin's surface originality from one set of images. That said, I don't see anything to doubt originality either. The color is a bit dark but not unnatural, and I can't say I dislike the look.  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Added, in view of Slider23's post: See? I told you I wasn't an expert.  Another area of interest is the faint rendition of the arrow fletches. Still not convinced it isn't authentic, but in view of conflicting opinion from someone more knowledgeable than I it bears looking into further. |
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
I don't think it's a counterfeit. I don't know anything about US coin specific details, but looking at the coin as a whole, it looks like a proper, struck coin. If the weight is accurate and size is proper that already reinforces authenticity. Slider's point about the hairs touching the neck are valid but I don't know if this the case for all such instances. If you look at the coins on the below links, you'll see the hairs do touch the neck in both, the 1875 and 1877-S samples. So it could be a variety? I'm not sure, I'll let the much more knowledgeable members of US coins in this community address that point. There are a couple things I do see that I don't really like and they are the mintmark and the period after 'grains'. The mintmark seems a bit off and a bit small and out of place. This, again, could be due to variety or it could be that some one decided to get cute and took an 's' from a different coin and applied it here. You do not have an enlarged image of the mintmark so it's hard to say. The period is also odd, from all the images I've seen, it's actually a comma that should follow the word 'grains'. Separately, I see hairlines so this coin has probably been rubbed/cleaned. https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-explor...coinid-17037https://www.NGCcoin.com/coin-explor...coinid-17046 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
No expert either for sure, but looks good to me.  to the CCF! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
A 1873 and 1874 Trade dollar only had a type 1 reverse. One of the differences between type 1 and type 2 reverse is the back of the neck feathers. The OP coin has type 2 neck feathers used 1875 through 1878. A 1875 or 1876 could have a type 1 or type 2 reverse. The coin OP has to be a counterfeit. OP Coin type 2 back of neck feathers that extend to wing:  Genuine 1874 type 1 neck feathers:  Here is a genuine type 2 reverse much like the OP coin that was used after 1874.  Edited by Slider23
09/30/2017 6:53 pm
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New Member
 United States
5 Posts |
Here is a close up of the eagle's head and feathers. Would that be the only indication that you see to justify it being fake? Is that good enough for a grading service to completely disqualify it?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2023 Posts |
I'm no expert either but I don't like the looks of this one. The lines on the neck are too sharp and don't line up nicely with the genuine pic above. The "hair" on top of the head is too round and the lines don't look the same there either. The lower beak looks too narrow. The letters in the motto are a bit off -- the lines in the "L" and first "U" in Pluribus are about the same width while they're not in the genuine pic.
Some of that could be due to wear, or I'm looking at the wrong type of reverse, especially for the letters.
Edited by Alpha2814
09/30/2017 8:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
With your second close up photo the neck feathers look more like a type 1. There is a bump below the feathers that made it look like the feathers extended to the wing. I would submit the coin for grading as it appears genuine. It does look cleaned.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
If you had 6 local dealers look at it and they all said it's real then why do you still question its authenticity? $230 wasn't a bad offer imo.
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
Okay, so I posted it here for another opinion. I had the 6 dealers review it, I researched it for a few years for all of the typical tells of a fake (some of what you posted slider23), I took it to several jewelers to test the weight and all came back to about 27.2g and they checked the diameter which was 38.1mm. Everything came back as pretty accurate based on the research and those 6 dealers opinions.....but it just came back from PCGS as counterfeit. I posted here because, I have read some places that PCGS has slabbed some fakes before and also rejected some real Trade dollars before too, and I wanted to get your thoughts before sending off to NGC for another chance at grading. I also posted on another forum and most everyone came back as fake due to "Study the shape of the letters. Compare them with a genuine coin on the internet. They are totally CRUDE!" and a few other things too. I didn't post about the PCGS results because I didn't want it to impact your opinion since I was considering sending it to NGC. I'm still conflicted. |
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Rest in Peace
10197 Posts |
According to sliders original pic of type1 feathers, notice the width of each feather and veining shown. OPs coin is just hard line, no details whatsoever of a feather which is clearly seen on both type 1 & type2 reverses
COIN IS A COUNTERFEIT, PERIOD!
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Valued Member
United States
414 Posts |
This is a very good forgery if it is one. I do agree with some of the feedback here.
1. The feathers on the neck are off, too straight, and the grooves much too deep
2. The obvious incorrect type of eagle for the year
3. Period after 'grains' instead of a comma
4. The cleaned fields (forgeries almost always are well worn or have cleaned/rubbed fields)
5. I personally think that 's' mintmark looks off, a bit too small and out of place
Yet the coin appears to be struck to my eye. Could you post some close up pics of the coin's rims, specifically the reverse above the words 'of'. Also you say the coin is 27.2g and diameter is 38.1mm. These are book numbers. Coins usually exhibit some variation in both diameter and weight. Secondly, if the diameter is indeed 38.1 what is the width of the coin? Any chance this coin could be a proper coin that someone just altered the date on?
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New Member
United States
5 Posts |
I will post the requested photo in the morning.
The weight and diamiter we're about the book noted number, aLittle off but within the acceptible +/- on both.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
The bump below the neck feathers could be a cast bump and may be the reason PCGS did not certify the coin as Alpha noted the neck looks a little strange when compared to the certified coin. It doesn't surprise me that a TPG can get the authencation incorrect as the research on Trade dollars leaves a lot to be desired. |
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Replies: 22 / Views: 4,111 |
Posted 09/30/2017 12:55 pm
