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Alexander The Great AR Tetradrachm: Authentic Or Not

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New Member

Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  4:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Poll Question
Hello again!

As I had to give up on the previous coin, I wanted to see if either of the following 2 coins authentic or not. The first one is said to be PAMPHYLIA Aspendus 202 BC, but I could not identify it.
The second one looks like Temnos mint, civic issue struck ca 188-170 BC, but the seller says that its 327-323 BC.

What do you think?
Thanks in advance
Alexander-The-Great-AR-Tetradrachm:-Authentic-Or-Not
Alexander-The-Great-AR-Tetradrachm:-Authentic-Or-Not

Poll Choices
 Both look authentic
 First one looks authentic, second one not
 First one looks fake, second authentic
 Both look fake

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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  4:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If all I have is pictures to judge from, then both look fake to me.
Although it is not possible, I would much rather like to examine them in hand, before making a final decision.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You don't need to use polls to get your answers, just post a normal thread.

I agree with sel, they both appear to be fake.
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arnoldoe's Avatar
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1st one is real..
2nd.. not sure
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34418 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@sel and ron, would you mind providing a little more detail about why you think the first one is fake? I see what appears to be metal flow lines around most of the periphery on the obv, so I'm thinking that this piece at least was struck rather than cast (despite the odd bubbles/granularity behind Hercuyles' ear). I'm a little bothered by the lack of definition in Zeus' head on the rev, but maybe this feature doesn't always fully strike up? Again, I'm just trying to learn here...
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 11/16/2017  10:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much, but as Spence said - could you explain why?

Regarding polls - they provide more opinions. For instance, there are 5 opinions and 4 replies :)
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  03:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the first example, the head is not 'struck' up, but the torso is.
That head area could be a filled die, but I don't think so.
Filled dies are more common with machine made coins.

I also see what appears to be metal flow lines, but they can be easily reproduced with pressure casting.
There is only one radial crack in the flan. I would love to see inside that crack with a 20X loupe, looking for tensile metal failure, that would have happened with a strike. If there is no stress, it is more than likely to be pressure cast.

The details in part do look a little mushy, but I have seen some very deceiving pressure cast silver copies of both ancients and modern coins.

For those that have a sense of smell, (I don't anymore, unfortunately)*, rubbing the coin between the fingers and then smelling them for an obviously coppery smell would reveal a copper alloy. Ancient Greek silver tended to be reasonably pure, and the coppery smell on your fingers would not be obvious.

*I was exposed to a massive volume trichloroethylene used in cleaning jet engine parts for F18 fighter aircraft. Tric. is poisonous and carcinogenic, but liver cancer has not been detected in me yet.
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Palouche's Avatar
Spain
2752 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  04:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could you post a photo of the edges?
This can sometimes show the experts alot.
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For me the strike is soft and lacks the detail I would expect to see on the bust.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
United States
7066 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  6:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison. Below is OP coin #1 with a counterstamped example from an Ars Coin Wien sale in 2016. Both obverse and reverse dies may match here.

Alexander-The-Great-AR-Tetradrachm:-Authentic-Or-Not

And below is the obverse of OP coin #1 alongside an example from CNG E-Auction 378 and a specimen from a Gorny Mosch sale. Taking perspectival and lighting differences into account, these may be die matches.

Alexander-The-Great-AR-Tetradrachm:-Authentic-Or-Not

Btw, this wasn't mentioned in the post, but coin #1 is from a recent Heritage sale:

Alexander-The-Great-AR-Tetradrachm:-Authentic-Or-Not
Edited by Kamnaskires
11/17/2017 6:53 pm
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TypeCoin971793's Avatar
United States
6370 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TypeCoin971793 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both look real to me
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's what I love about this forum, I learn something new every day. If I were offered OP #1 I would have passed on it for being fake. Bob has a keen eye for die matches and the ability to find reference examples.
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Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 11/17/2017  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome :) Thank you very much.

Regarding the edges - there is no photo of the coin edges. I am willing to purchase it, I don't own it yet
New Member
Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2017  05:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So in result it is authetic. Right?
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34418 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2017  06:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@pratamishus, I think that there was a bit of a split opinion on the first coin, but the fact that it is being sold by Heritage is strong (not perfect) evidence that it is real. I would say that the lack of detail on the rev, especially in Zeus' head makes this a bit less desirable of a coin. However, Alexander Tets are truly iconic and so it would still be a very nice addition to your collection.

Good luck with your bidding and be sure to send us pics when you have your new prize in hand!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
New Member
Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2017  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks a lot
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