Some Questions From A New Collector

Check out NGC's weekly newsletter. It lists the current winners and losers of the high dollar coin market. It is quite fluid from what I see, too risky for a poor old man like me to begin to try venture capital! You are correct the dividing line seems 64/65 levels are stable. Above that are the "Dealers" (remember the rock song?) lotta "smucks for bucks" prostitutes masquerading as Coin Dealers. The Legit ones frequent the 67-69 range IMHO... 66 and 70's draw in the bad players, well moreso than the other grades.

Of course, where do you want to go. The exceptional, solid grade of say all 67's, above 67, below 66, you got to set you goal. Better to start off with one and change it later (up or down grades) then try both. Too much money to be lost, wasted and RoR (Rate of Return) isn't real high right now. You say you're a collector, then set your financial levels. I see a lot of things turning over now, stuff that was purchased long ago is now being sold for a good profit (estate liquidations, dealer/collector hoards, personal collections)are all hitting the market and will be for a while. Nice coins, yea, but you won't be the one that gets the better end of the stick in most cases...

On grading, look at the PCGS Pix listing on coin grading, sets how they do it acc to pix. Otherwise, get in on the threads here asking for a grade, sharpens your skill when compared to others who may know something about it. Read up on Sites like Jon Wexler's doubleddie.com and chck the resources on the site here, ask your questions about a specific coin of yours and once opinion graded, see if you can see why someone graded it that way.

Go to as many shows and shops as you can to begin with and leave your money at home. Study slabs and dealer-graded raw coins. Buy a good grading manual and a reference book on St. Gaudens $20s. Do all of this before you buy a single coin and you'll never regret it.



to the CCF!

Having worked in a coin shop for the last 6 months or so, I think I can offer some insight into some of your questions...




It really depends on the coin in question. My shop would pay far less than wholesale for things that we are already overstocked on, or things that will take a long time to sell (think low grade, common coins)

On the flip side, if a coin comes in that is very desirable, or if it is something that we know we can sell quickly for a strong price we would use wholesale prices as a guide, but we would most likely be prepared to pay more. This isn't always the case, but we typically buy collectible coins for anywhere between 60-80% of retail.




Morgan dollars are a very popular series that attract many collectors. If you're thinking long term, you should have no problem selling them. On the contrary, because of their popularity, you will have to pay up for nice coins, especially toners, top pop coins, or CC coins.

Peace dollars are a much shorter set (a complete set is only 24 coins), and many are much more reasonably priced than Morgans. However, many common dates shoot up in price once you get into AU and MS grades.




The best way to learn how to grade is to look at a LOT of coins. If you have the time, I would highly recommend taking a grading class at the ANA. They offer several grading classes at their annual summer seminar. I attended one last summer and loved every minute of it. There is tons of material available to help you practice, and the instructors are top notch.

https://www.money.org/summer-seminar


I hope this helps answer at least a few of your questions. This site is a great resource and I'm sure you will learn a lot.

I have a similar story but fortunately I still have all my coins from when I was kid. I got back into the game a year ago. My first stop was CCF. This website will provide you with an interactive crash refresher course in numismatics. You're smart! You're first priority should be to develop an eye. Start by making graded acquisitions from Heritage, Great Collections and Stacks-bowers in series that interest you. I agree with what others have said about ebay. Buying raw coins from ebay should be reserved for advanced collectors only. As you start to build your library of graded coins you will have those at your finger tips for reference to compare other coins to.

Also, you need to look at thousands of coins. Start by trolling our classic coin grading section. In a few months you should have learned enough to start offering your own opinions. When you do, don't worry about being wrong. Others will correct you and the mistakes you make will help you learn how to grade with confidence.

Oh and to CCF!

With regard to grading, reality indicates you're going to see a whole lot more images of coins than coins in-hand to grade. Be aware they are two entirely different skillsets.

1) Digital photography is harsh in its' depiction of coins. Those who have refined their grading skill before ever learning to grade from images consistently undergrade imaged coins until they learn the "correction" necessary. There are those who will offer firm opinion regarding images which aren't sufficient evidence for anything but the most vague of guesses; avoid that trap. Learn the photography itself, to whatever extent you want to dive into it. If you don't mind diving in and exerting intellectual elbow grease (and don't mind used equipment), $200-300 will put you into an imaging rig capable of results matching those of the professionals. Just be aware there's no Easy Button....

2) Half the process of grading a coin from a photograph is grading the photograph. Cameras, and the skill with which they're wielded, vary greatly between photographers. Color can be off, and lighting changes drastically alter the look of the coin presented. Again, knowing how to image coins yourself places you in a far better position to evaluate the work of others.

3) Worse yet, grading itself is not consistent. TPG's (Third-Party Graders) tend to "Market Grade" which is, in essence, grading to what they think the coin is worth in the market rather than the technical merit of the coin. This process tends to place greater weight on eye appeal than an old-school grader, and can lead to (polite) disagreements about grade within a given thread. We're all aware of the differences between technical grading and market grading, and as a general rule we also tend towards market grading because that's how the market is functioning. One ultimate goal of a grade is as a vehicle to estimate market worth, after all.

Those who make the more valuable contributions (hint) offer more than just a grade; they define the reasons behind the grade given and usually specifically call out to what extent eye appeal factored in their decision.

Another problem with the TPG's is, better grades are better for their business. This has led to a gradual lessening of grading standards over the years such that a large percentage of older TPG slabs have been "cracked" and the coins resubmitted for a higher grade (value). It's also led to, in many cases, a visible premium for these older slabs, both from those for whom the old slab itself has interest, and those looking to crack it and get a higher grade. Genuinely "undergraded" coins in these old slabs are getting harder to find, but given the somewhat-reclusive nature of collectors, there will always be "fresh meat" appearing on the market which hasn't been seen before.

Keep a sharp eye out.

Over the last six or eight years, they've lurched back towards more conservative grading under pressure (spell r-i-d-i-c-u-l-e) from bigger names in the industry, and I feel that the creation of CAC (another long story in itself) went a long way towards applying that pressure.

Yet another problem with TPG's (there's a pattern here) is inconsistency. Looked at in the larger picture, grading tends to be consistent. There are, however, outliers (the coins which get disproportionate publicity in pages like CCF) sufficient to make one question the sobriety of the grader. Don't let the presence of these outliers affect your opinion of the TPG more than it should; just don't forget that these are people in business to make a profit, and stuff happens as a result.

But the advantage you enjoy over your earlier collecting days is places like the one where you're posting, where you can interact with specialists of a lifetime's experience in every issue imaginable, and see a thousand coins in the timespan where, alone, you might see a hundred.

I filled several book sets off ebay. Set a price, set a grade, and bid away. You won't win every one, but bid during the middle of the week, daytime if possible, and stay away from bidding on the weekends, where bidding can be fueled by alcohol. JMHO

This will vary greatly from dealer to dealer and how fast they think they can sell it and for what price. The more common a coin generally the bigger spread will be but with graded coins you can always just sell them yourself somewhere like ebay if the spread is to large and cut out the middle man




It depends. If the 1k coin is a 1k coin because of it's melt value they're generally easy to sell. Now if it's a 1k coin because of it's numismatic value that can vary. Some can take a while to sell, but an exceptional one especially if it is actually rare will probably have buyers waiting.




For the most part yes which is largely because MS 60 through 62 is generally viewed as a less attractive coin. Many people would rather have an AU 58 than an MS 61 or 62 when it comes to silver coins.




https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl...D_5iHXu09wNg

That's the youtube homepage for PCGS. They have a number of grading videos on there that are about 45 minutes each that has some good information in them. Also look up PCGS Photograde (they have an app for that too) where they some some pictures of various grades for a series.

There's more to it than that, but that's a good starting point.

Wow! So much good information. Collectively you answered all of my questions, and while I realize that were talking in generalities, I have at least some data to start with. Thank you all for contributing to my education.

The mention of the grading class at the ANA was very helpful. I'm anxious to see what the price is for the week. Now that they kids are out of the house it'll be easy to arrange the time to go. Between now and then I'll study the PCGS videos and visit the GTG threads. Thanks for the suggestions.

SsuperDdave: your comments on picture quality are very welcome and something I had not thought about at all. I'll look into getting something decent for any images I may post as I anticipate asking the forum's opinion on some of my acquisitions.

Moxking wrote:



This is a game changer for me as I did not realize that fact. I looked at Heritage's completed auctions and found two 1900-O Morgans, both PCGS MS65 w/o CAC stickers, that sold two days apart and the prices were $104 and $192! That's an 88% difference. I could see 10% just for market "noise" but that much of a change means that one can't rely solely on grade.