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Ae Drachm - Elymaean, Kamnaskires-Orodes?, Bronze Disease Or Verdigris?

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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2017  8:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Wanted to get some thoughts on this coin from the CCF.

Seller purports that the coin is an Elymais AE drachm of Kamnaskires-Orodes. Obverse has bunched hair bust with two-bar anchor, and a crescent and pellet above. Reverse appears to be a field of dashes. Diameter of 16mm is given but no weight.

My main concern is the green stuff. Is this bronze disease or just heavy verdigris/patination? If it is the dreaded BD, is it worth attempting the "cure", or is this coin too far gone to bother?

Very inexpensive coin, and seller took very inexpensive pictures, but it's what I have to go on for now.

Thanks!

Ae-Drachm---Elymaean,-Kamnaskires-Orodes?,-Bronze-Disease-Or-Verdigris?

Ae-Drachm---Elymaean,-Kamnaskires-Orodes?,-Bronze-Disease-Or-Verdigris?
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2017  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With that coloration, the poor King kinda looks like the grinch.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2017  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love it, Spence. It shall henceforth be known as such when I get it into an envelope. :)
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2017  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's one odd obverse there, Adam. Yes, it does appear to be a drachm of Kamnaskires-Orodes, Van't Haaff type 12.3.

The oddities include the fact that the green - perhaps verdigris - is exclusively confined to the contours of the front-facing bust and the anchor. The fields and interior of the bust are free of it. How would that happen? I've never seen anything like that, where the verdigris slides up and around the edges of interior shapes. It's worth noting that there were no raised contour lines used by the die engravers on these issues - in other words, it's not as though there was a raised line or ridge that the green could have formed on.

The green "lines" also seem to have little tendrils, sort of like foliage spreading outward. Curious.

Also odd - although this may just be my perception based on the photo - is that the head and hair tufts of the king appear intaglio (as if scooped out) rather than in relief. There's a lot of missing imagery there.

And, as if that's not enough, the obverse appears slightly cupped/concave, although again that could be a result of the lighting/photography. I don't think I have ever seen an Elymaean drachm with a cupped obverse.

I'm going to have to use the head scratching guy here:

Edited by Kamnaskires
12/03/2017 10:07 pm
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echizento's Avatar
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 Posted 12/03/2017  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that is so odd looking.
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sel_69l's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Museums often have to deal with verdigris on bronze coins.
I would go Googling in a search on how to remove it.

A problem arises:
You get rid of the green stuff, and you loose color contrast, and the coin would then be seen as much less attractive.

Another problem:
If you leave the green stuff there, bronze disease can spread to other coins in your collection.

So, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My inclination would be to give it a miss, unless you see it as a very necessary addition to your collection.
In which case, you go down the museum path.

I share some of Bob L's 's, and the implications attached there to.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  01:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's about what I figured. The obverse looked weird to me, as though the high relief areas were in low relief and vice versa.
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Kamnaskires's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  07:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The obverse looked weird to me, as though the high relief areas were in low relief and vice versa.


Agreed. I wonder if someone made an experiment with this one, perhaps dremel'ing out the obverse devices to create a crude seal matrix. The green, rather than being verdigris, could be residue from whatever gunk they then pressed it into. Just speculating.
Edited by Kamnaskires
12/04/2017 07:18 am
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moxking's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  07:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly an odd green duck. If it were mine I'd leave as is and keep it in its own storage area in an air tight 2x2. If the green doesn't spread in a few months it could join it's cousins.

In this case I believe a head scratcher is more desirable than another relatively common issue.
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paralyse's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I actually ended up getting it for a king-size bid of $3. Which was really $0 since I had $18.94 in ebay bucks I forgot about.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 12/04/2017  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I actually ended up getting it for a king-size bid of $3.


Seems like it is worth it for $3, if nothing else to learn more about what it might be.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2017  11:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was thinking an optical illusion.

I can appreciate seeing the green in the high areas,
but I naturally assumed the green is in the more protected low areas.

The short thick lines on the reverse appear to be obviously raised to me.
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