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1964 Kennedy Half DDO

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Benja's Avatar
United States
186 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2017  11:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Benja to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO
1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO
1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO
1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO

Not sure what number it is but it could be my first DDO. Are these common on 1964's? I searched through a roll of circulated 1964's and found several like this.
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cwb's Avatar
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3463 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2017  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cwb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some of your photos show some MD. It is a doubled die, not sure which one as there are several known for that year. I'm also not sure how common they are.

Nice find!
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Benja's Avatar
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186 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Benja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some of your photos show some MD. It is a doubled die, not sure which one as there are several known for that year. I'm also not sure how common they are.

Nice find!


Thanks. Most of the halves had MD, but I mainly just looked for split serifs in IGWT.
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Tootallious's Avatar
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1559 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  02:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tootallious to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I'm no expert and still learning, it looks like all MD to me. All moving in the same direction, flat shelf like in appearance. Doesn't look like a DD to me.


1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO
1964-Kennedy-Half-DDO
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Benja's Avatar
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186 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  02:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Benja to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
While I'm no expert and still learning, it looks like all MD to me. All moving in the same direction, flat shelf like in appearance. Doesn't look like a DD to me.

Read my previous post. There's some MD but I'm looking at the split serifs. Maybe I should have put arrows.
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think it is MD, the overall size isn't increased , it is in same relative motion of the other slight MD/all over. DDD perhaps
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CoinCollector2000's Avatar
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2563 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  08:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see an obvious split and notching on the W of WE. It is a doubled die, but better photos would be needed to attribute. Nice find!
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 Posted 12/30/2017  09:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add uruman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with CC2000
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moxking's Avatar
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17900 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  09:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good eyes. I wouldn't have caught that one. Congratulations.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 12/30/2017  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me neither!
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atrox001's Avatar
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311 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atrox001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would attribute your 50c 64D has a MDO-002 (master die obverse), ODV-002 (obverse die variety), RDV-001 straight G (reverse die variety) from the CONECA Master Listings, note the W of WE.
http://varietyvista.com/Variety%20M...s%201964.htm

There is also quite a bit of MDD (Machine Damage Doubling) in your photos.
Larry Nienaber
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you found several examples, then you might check to see if the same die markers are present? Is so, then they maybe from the same die. If markers vary, then it might be a master hub-master die or working hub issue? But I would keep it safe for now. Your images are either too far away, or to close to tell for sure what you have. Thr stars on the reverse under the left leg looks doubled.
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Crazyb0's Avatar
10197 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, you again beat me to it. My previous response was incomplete, hadn't woke up yet. Here's my response in an email question about this and not seeing where the OP sees doubling.


Quote:

That 64 Kennedy is a good example of a "maybe". If you look close at the upper right of the IGWT, you can just barely see a horizontal split with a notch on a couple letters. I responded earlier this morning after taking a bathroom break, still 3/4 asleep. I called it MD becuz the overall size of the letter has not increased as it should in a doubled die shifting. Try to think of one imprint placed over the other, like in layers on a photo. Turning CW/CCW makes the letters wider/taller overall. That's what happens in a DDO. When the movement is slight(tiny hair slight) you get the fat "balloon" letter. A bit more and you start seeing a faint line in the thick letter. Next may appear a notch if the shifting is angular, say a NW shift. In all of these descriptions, the key is size increase. Without it, it is NOT a DDO / DDR.

The principles are the same for RPMs, but the manufacturing processes are different. Multiple hubbings are used in the die making process, like adding additional layers in making a .gif. Original elements from the previous "layer" (hub) are applied on top of each other. RPMs are hand added by a puncheon(hammer and punch) as the last stage in die making. The RPM is added to the final "working die" before being sent to its destination mint(D or S) in the Philly mint. Being hand punched, it takes a couple taps to get the depth in the metal. Any additional tappings may move slight, or jump completely out of the first impression. This makes the different styles of an RPM.

Therefore, based upon the overall size of these letters, see no expansion of width, or one so very slight as to be an unrecognized RPM. This is where Mega magnification works against you. Is it live or is it Memorex? Here, if it is an RPM, it is such a minor one, not listed and worthless to burn your eyes out searching for. My OCD has its limits! Those recognized doubled events, listed/attributed are those recognizable under normal magnification mean. I use a @25x handmade loupe to ID a possible DDO/RPM, then I'll put it under the scope. If You've noticed I take three pix of the coin. A full size pic will be used to identify the coin. A close-up low-res will be used to cross-hatch location. A close-up Hi-res is used to see the mintmark itself, shapes and any special features (serifs, punch breaks, chips, die dings). That's all need. Problems arise with shadows at higher resolutions (mag levels 150x). This is the smoke and mirrors effect. An MD slant can replicate a DDO by reflections. Or a splitting of the serif as in this 64's example could well be Die Deterioration separation (pulling of metal flow). Again, here is where size does matter! May just post this in the thread, with a few words changed to protect those innocent ears that will have to run to their safe spaces!

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atrox001's Avatar
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311 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2017  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atrox001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The bottom line for this 64BS is that there is some doubling on the obverse and reverse but should be considered as very minor, one of thousands of others out there. I will say that the RDV-001 straight G (transitional), I have found to be uncommon.
Larry Nienaber
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