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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,167 |
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New Member
France
6 Posts |
Hi ! I just bought this beautiful piece on ebay. The seller seems to know and trust... For those who know, it's "Jeffone" Jeffrey Zarit. Already mentioned on this forum. This is the first time I crack the piggy bank like that and of course, I need to be reassured!  What is your opinion on the authenticity of this piece?     |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
First off, welcome.
If as you say you've bought this from a reputable dealer you trust, that's a big mark in its favor.
Images of the edge (all the way around) would be helpful. But on a visual basis alone it's difficult to authenticate these with 100% accuracy. There are things you ought to do if you want to be "reassured". First get an accurate weight for it. Determine its specific gravity. Analyze its composition via xray fluorescence (XRF).
Colligo ergo sum
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New Member
 France
6 Posts |
Yes thanks for this answer. At reception of the piece I will do the elementary controls (weight, diameter and metal). It will be a good start.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
Lucky gave you good advice. I would recommend showing us photos of the item before you purchase it. We can usually suggest other inspections that should be made and an honest opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Ah, the 1755 Guatemala returns... http://goccf.com/t/101392http://goccf.com/t/158192It's one of those pieces that frankly requires way more detailed explanation than is worth someone's time on here (and frankly even MORE SO to a novice)... and anyway, the seller will tune you out after 10 words in anyway even if you could explain it perfectly (especially because he has, in fact, a long-established dealer and HAS specifically handled QUITE a lot of better Guatemala "cobs" and pillars). To me, this is an iteration of the 1755 Guatemala 8R fake that has been around for almost a decade. Again, this requires a lot of explanation, but long story short - it is a type that I've been aware of for quite a while (others are also)... has been discussed here before... and is quite hard to diagnose without a very critical eye and/or lots of comparison searching. Even having been familiar with it, now looking more critically at the entire surface of all the examples I've seen plus auction archive pieces... I'm seeing more and more very minute (but definite if you know what you're looking at) tells. This is also making me realize that at least several have slipped into "real" numismatic auctions. BEFORE (!!) you pay and have it sent... I guess simplest would be to tell the seller that some doubts have been raised about the authenticity of this piece... can we cancel?" If he protests heavily (you can be certain he will never sell to you again), then perhaps you can contact someone who knows his Guatemala... that the seller (whom he knows well) would likely listen to. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Now - the lecture:
Don't buy and THEN ask. Don't be slick and think "ooh, I don't want anyone to find it and buy it out from under me!". Either ask for help or don't... because then you get in this situation where you've already committed to buy it and now it makes a hassle.
Of course, when dabbling in $500+ coins... don't "need" to ask, but instead STUDY THEM yourself. COMPARE known genuine pieces... do your homework... KNOW what you are looking at!!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
Images of the edge (all the way around) would be helpful. But on a visual basis alone it's difficult to authenticate these with 100% accuracy. There are things you ought to do if you want to be "reassured". First get an accurate weight for it. Determine its specific gravity. Analyze its composition via xray fluorescence (XRF). What, no magnets? Of course, if something is way off, that works. But a piece like this is PROBABLY to be proper weight and silver content... and specific gravity is going to probably be "close enough". AND, as we know, only a really good XRF with tight tolerances that shows detailed trace admixture is useful (and even THEN, is open to some debate and at very least, needs to be viewed alongside background knowledge - what mints used what alloys and when). I can also tell you that the edge is pretty decent on this type, from what I've seen... NOT an automatic zonk. |
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New Member
France
6 Posts |
Thank you for your feedback. Always very interesting. @realeswatcher I thank you for your messages developed and argued. This piece is on ebay it's been a few weeks. I have a database (books, blogs, forums including this one, a little experience, ....) I thought a lot and you're right this model is "dangerous", but the photos allowed me to to see a clean coin, with nothing flagrant. The fake guatemala 1755 pieces that I could see, all had at least one disgusting detail. The hedge seems decent to me as you said. The exchanges I had with the seller, after my reflection, seemed correct (you tell me of course, but I understand on details). I will receive it, make a first feedback and I will take it to PGCS or NGCS (a tip guys ? another debate ...). Edited by JD1789
02/22/2018 1:42 pm
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New Member
France
6 Posts |
Thanks for the compilation.
I can join you on these photos without problems. But on the one that concerns my coin, the details are not excellent but I think that the photo can deceive the eye. I've already seen this gray mast that distorts the strike and when you have it in hand it's something else. When I receive it, I get my opinion. I want to see this piece with a light that will shine its metal: for me it is worth seeing in hand. In the end, if I'm not 100% sure I return.
I keep the forum informed.
Sacre Eastern friend...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I know Jeff rather well and over the past 20 years we have done a lot of business. I normally trust him as a competent authenticator, in particular for Mexican issues, however, in this case there are a couple serious errors that I can not un-see. These shake my confidence in authenticity.
I believe that realeswatcher has one of the best handles on Pillar dollars that I know of. I normally defer to him on this series because I have more limited expertise with it, in particular for the low production mints. I do suggest that you do some simple tests to make sure it is actually silver. In my opinion, this is not a recent forgery (based on one thing I saw) and it may date back a few decades or more. It is also clearly NOT a Contemporary Counterfeit. If as I suspect this is a engraved die/mold pair it could go back to the 1960's when people tended to overlook minor punched details.
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New Member
France
6 Posts |
Before buying my coin, I read a lot of posts from you (Swamperbob) and Realwatchers. You both seem to agree and I will not do the experiment more than I can.
Normally I collect mint from Potosi, Lima or Cuzco. But I had a "pulsion" for Guatemala mint after reading a book, which I loved, about the conquest of Mexico / Guatemala (Bernal Diaz del Castillo).
It seemed to me that this "mold" aspect was particular to the mint of GUATEMALA ... even if I saw more coins with pretty reliefs.
When I traded with the seller, I could see that he knew very well his subject (may be less in guatemala type...). I do not question his honesty.
For Guatemala type, did someone already have problems with slabed coins (NGC)?
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New Member
France
6 Posts |
I received it today. The weight: 27.2g The hedge :     I don't like it... I will return. Edited by JD1789
03/09/2018 12:18 pm
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,167 |
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Posted 02/21/2018 3:33 pm
